PCA Zone 8 NIGHT AutoX!!!! <<<<<<<

[Brad Roberts]

This sounds like a blast. I'm headed up for this event this Saturday night. $50 late reg. Newer surface at the Orange show grounds in Riverside.

60+ cars have gathered for a fun run up to Big Bear and back prior to the event.

The event tech starts at 6pm. The event itself starts at 7pm and runs until 2am.

The lot is lighted!

Any reason why SD people tend not to travel for AutoX? I'm used to running AutoX with 5 different regions up north (Reno/Redwood/SacVR/GGR/LPR) it was nothing for us to travel to events 10 months out of the year!

Let me know if you want more info. I have a track location map and signup information.

B

[RickK]

I would assume most of us don't travel for other events because of the number of events run in town plus the size of our venue vs many used by the other regions makes our events very good.

[Jad]

There will be several San Diego region members there. Not 100, like here, but some that I know of.

[ttweed]

I ran almost all of the Zone 8 autox events last year and this event was one of them. I wouldn't go back if you paid me. The Orange Show rented part of the lot to another group for a wedding, and their cars jammed up the lot so bad there was no room to pit next to the grid. The pits were placed behind a fence in the next lot over, and you had to go out a gate and cross the course to get to grid from the pits, so the event had to stop after every run group to stage the next one. The lot was postage-stamp size and the course was very tight. You needed to go to first gear 3 times to put in a good time. The lighting was poor and the course was very hard to follow. There were only 3 corner stations so courseworkers were spread very thin, and some DNFs and cones were not scored because no one saw them. It didn't start on time and it ran way past 2:00am. I didn't get home until about 5:00am. Granted, some of the problems were caused by factors beyond their control, but I can think of better reasons to stay up all night. It was the worst-organized event in the punkiest venue I have ever seen. It made the Zone 8 autox at the Speed Festival look good, and that was a horror show, IMHO.

TT

[Brad Roberts]

Thanks Tom. You have thoroughly scared the sh_t out of me..LOL

A wedding until 2am?

We traveled up north for the seat time. The sites didnt really matter. Run a Redwood Region Zone7 event some time..LOL it is done on a postage stamp, but the fun factor is still way UP.

The lighting was poor and the course was very hard to follow.

But, this was the same for everyone correct?

What about the surface? It cannot be any worse than Qualcomeapart.


B

[ttweed]

A wedding until 2am?

The wedding was over pretty quick, but the party/reception was still going on when I left about 3am, but it was breaking up a bit after about 1:00am, around the time the first run group was starting timed runs. Until then, during practice, after you finished your run, you had to thread your way thru the west end of the parking lot full of wedding party-goers, parking their cars and coming and going all night, in order to get in line to stage for your next run. At the worst of it, they had some parking attendants directing traffic, but it was a zoo in the staging/pre-grid area.

We traveled up north for the seat time. The sites didnt really matter. Run a Redwood Region Zone7 event some time..LOL it is done on a postage stamp, but the fun factor is still way UP.

I have run on some small lots that were fun, but trying to fit too much into a small area gets dangerous. Having traffic going and coming with little separation of lanes on the course, combined with hard objects (curbs, chain link fences and concrete block walls) defining the edge of the course takes some of the fun out of it for me. Add to this the difficulty of seeing a poorly defined course under nightime driving conditions and I was amazed that there were no wrecks.

But, this was the same for everyone correct?

Well, yeah, if you actually followed the course it was the same. I saw many inexperienced people going 4 wheels off in between cones, cutting off a corner, and then back on course between two other cones and thinking they were OK. The cone spacing was such that it looked like there were gates everywhere. There were no pointer cones or walled cones to define the turns, and an attempt was made after the first practice session to draw a chalk line down the middle of the course to define it for those who were lost, but after dark, that line was hardly visible. Some people never "got it" and cut the same corners all night, from what I saw. I don't remember seeing anyone scored as DNF, but given the lack of course workers, and their inability to see things in the glare of headlights coming at them, it's not surprising. I think some cones stayed down throughout a session, as no one could see they were knocked over, much less tell who hit them! If you are trying to compete seriously under these conditions, it's a joke. The two hours it took for everyone to get thru registration and tech didn't lend itself to a lot of seat time, either, when combined with stopping the event every 20 minutes for at least 10 minutes while one group filed off to the pits and the next group filed on.

What about the surface? It cannot be any worse than Qualcomeapart.

The surface was fine--dead flat and level and smooth--no problem there.

If you want to have a good time traveling to a Zone 8 event, I can recommend the SAR events at Pinal Air Park outside Tuscon, and the GER events at Minter Field in Shafter, and any of the Streets of Willow autocrosses (Grand Prix region is doing 2 this year and OCR at least one, maybe?) The OCR events in the bigger, outside lots at Fontana would be OK too, I think.

TT

[ajackson]

I also went to last years event and Tom summed everything up pretty well. In addition to the venue problems, it was very unorganized and poorly run. I also agree about the track not being a lot of fun, esp since I couldn't even shift to 1st with my tired gearbox.

I acutally live closer to the orange show grounds than qualcomm, but I think I will be skipping this one. It made me realize how spoiled we are in this club, from the venue to the people that run the events.

[Brad Roberts]

Thanks Tom!

I spoke to the organizer and he made the decision to make everyone run "lights off" because of some of the headache associated with years past.

He also "hinted" at the fact that he needs help.

I'm going to be in the area for the Big Bear fun run during the day on Sat. so I'll attend the event and report back with some pics.

Maybe I can help him with corner working/organizing. It sounds to me like the organizer doesnt have a ton of help or experience like you have here in SD.

B

[watracing]

Well, might as well put my 2 cents in. Ran it last year also. My biggest problem was safety, for both spectators, vehicles and course workers. The parking lot is too small for what they are using it for. There were specifically two sections that really concerned me. First, the end of the first straight you headed straight into a steel pole. Hope you don't overshoot. Second, they had a slolom that ran up against the fence that seperated the pit from the course. Several cars became sideways there. Not enought or any runoff, if you decided to push it. Bill and I will attend almost every zone 8 autocross, but never that one again @ that location. If they were able to get a larger lot, that was set up better, maybe.

Anyway, sorry for rambling. Hope you enjoy.

[Brad Roberts]

Thanks Kathy,

I know you have a lot of seat time on ALL types of courses from big to small.

After you have ran Redwood region's airport course, nothing scares me

I'll *hopefully* see everyone Monday at Qualcomm also.

B

[watracing]

Brad,

I too have run the Redwood Region Airport, and as far as I am concerned, nooooooooooooooooo comparision. To me that was a small but fun course, no safety issue, as far as I could see. Just a very small course.

Hope you have fun.

Kathy

[ttweed]

It sounds to me like the organizer doesnt have a ton of help or experience like you have here in SD.

If Jim Burke is still doing this for Riverside region, that is definitely true. He is sort of a one-man show for their autox program and is spread very thin. I'm sure he would be very happy to have any capable help he can get to put on the event. We are indeed very lucky to have such a deep corps of experienced volunteer workers here in SDR, and such a great venue as Qualcomm. Our procedures have been examined, developed and refined over many years of putting on high-attendance events to help "smooth them out." When you go elsewhere in the Zone, it is easy to see the difference in the organization and the pool of experience in the smaller regions.

TT

[Jad]

According to my dad, this event wasn't too bad. Not nearly as bad as he feared having read this forum. Very small turn out, ~18 cars and 25 drivers.

Congrats to Neil for his TTOD or TTON (night).

[ttweed]

According to my dad, this event wasn't too bad.

Neil told me today that they ran in a different lot than last year, which was a big improvement. He was pretty pumped about his TTOD/N!

tt

[ajackson]

I think part of the problem was last year they had a larger turnout than expected. It's much easier to run an event ad-hoc with fewer people. Add a different venue to a low turnout and I can see a fun event.

Since this one was good, does that mean next year lots of people will go and it will be poor? Then the next year everyone will stay home and it will be good again...



--Alan