New Porsche Cayman GT4

[Jad]

Yep, never understood why manual mode can't just be manual? Why must ALL settings do what it thinks is best, sure it may be faster, and should protect the engine, but sometimes it is better to smoothly accelerate out of a corner in the higher gear, especially when borrowing a car and learning a track. That is my biggest criticism of the PDK, probably my only criticism other than it isn't as fun or rewarding, as it technically is better at everything

[ttweed]

Yep, never understood why manual mode can't just be manual? Why must ALL settings do what it thinks is best, sure it may be faster, and should protect the engine, but sometimes it is better to smoothly accelerate out of a corner in the higher gear, especially when borrowing a car and learning a track.

Jad-
Was this happening in the 991 GT3 you drove? I haven't driven one yet, but my understanding is that the PDK-S implementation in the 991 GT3 is different than in all the other PDK models and does not include a kickdown switch on the pedal or any automatic downshifting under hard throttle application when driven in manual shifting mode, unlike my Cayman or the 991 Carreras. It should allow you to do exactly what you mentioned--accelerate hard in a lower gear out of a turn if desired, unless you are in auto mode.

I am only going on what has been stated by many owners in the Rennlist 991 GT3 forum, but they all say that in manual mode with the 991 GT3, there is absolutely no automatic downshifting no matter how aggressive with the throttle you are. The only time it will downshift on its own is to prevent stalling the car at very low rpms as you brake to a stop. In Auto mode it will kick-down when floored like all the other PDK models (if the RPMs are low enough to allow it without over-revving the engine), but the manual mode is supposed to be truly manual in the way that you want it (and I would, too). The PDK-S implements a few other unique features (besides lower ratios) such as no "creep" from a stop, releasing both clutches when both paddles are pulled back, and the direction for up- and downshifts with the lever is reversed (forward for downshifts, back for upshifts) to conform with the standard for most sequential race boxes. It also has a stouter LSD than the earlier manual GT3 cars.

This is why I was so hopeful that the GT4 would be offered with the PDK-S box like the GT3, and why I am holding out to see if next year (or even 2018) it might. I'm willing to wait. My Cayman S is plenty of fun for now, and if I'm going to pay $100K for a car, I want the whole motorsports package. I think the transaxle is going to be the weakest part for the manual GT4, since they are essentially using the 6-speed box out of the Cayman GTS, which has fairly high gearing and a relatively weak LSD.

TT

[Jad]

TT,

You may be correct on the 991 GT3. I actually gave up and didn't even try manual as 1. I was just showing the basic line of the track to my student in her NEW GT3, 2. Only went out and came in before getting a time as the rest of the red group decided it was time to spin, dirt track and generally play way too much for my comfort in her car and 3. It has shown to be faster letting the car do perfect redline shifts, than doing it yourself.

So I just assumed in would be like the Boxsters, Cayman's, Boxster Roadster and 997TT that I tried in manual, but it sounds like they FINALLY have a manual PDK in one car! Of course the automatic torque vectoring, 4 wheel steering, PSM, active engine mounts, etc, etc still make it more of a video game than I like 997 GT3RS is the last great drivers car....

PS. The sound while going down the straight hitting 9000 rpm instant shifts with just a 'pop' is pretty cool.

[pecivil]

The only way to avoid this is to be slower and progressive on the throttle and "not-quite" floor it until reaching the higher RPM range.

This is how you should be doing it anyway, right?

I noticed the kick down in street driving and it is a bit disconcerting as it really gives you a jolt as it pops down a cog. Fun, but maybe not the best for control on a track coming out of a turn.

[ttweed]

The only way to avoid this is to be slower and progressive on the throttle and "not-quite" floor it until reaching the higher RPM range.

This is how you should be doing it anyway, right?

Yah, but avoiding the kickdown goes beyond just managing your contact patches by not being too abrupt with control inputs. The "not-quite floor it" part is the most important. You have to avoid using that last 1/2" of throttle travel for longer than you might be used to, especially if you're coming from underpowered older analog 911s like me. I was just really accustomed to going to WOT as fast as possible at every opportunity. I had to recalibrate my foot to stay off the floor for a bit longer when exiting slow second-gear corners in an AX so it wouldn't kick down to first for an unexpected burst. Even when it does happen, your front wheels are usually already straightening out and it doesn't upset the car too much because of the automatic rev-matching. On a faster course (big track) in a higher gear, such a surge may be more problematic, but I have no plans to time trial this car so that doesn't concern me.

TT

[ttweed]

997 GT3RS is the last great drivers car....

The market certainly seems to support your opinion, Jad. Look at the prices for used 997 GT3 and RS examples--they are holding their value very well. The 4.0RS is selling for more than it did when new! It will be interesting to see how the 991 GT3 & RS models do on resale in the coming years comparatively. It will also be interesting to see if the GT4 release effects the rising values of the earlier generation GT3s just because it is offered in manual. Will some of the market for those cars be attracted to the Cayman platform instead? We are living in interesting "car-guy" (and gal) times....

TT

[Jad]

The GT4 is a great drivers car, but I don't see it having any chance to compete with a GT3 once the novelty wears off. Non-911 have never done well, not even the 944 Turbo S, that clearly beat the best 911 of the era. The GT4 can't match the HP, or prestige of the 911 GT3, so I don't see how it will have any effect on the 'real' Porsches. A base Boxster is just too similar to a Cayman GT4 to have in stay in the price stratosphere for long I think.

Definitely an interesting time in the car world. Big change is coming with the 918, McLaren, i8 and even a Tesla sedan capable of 3 second 0-60. Electrons are coming after gas in a big way. Not sure which will win or if they will just learn to get along, but I personally think gas has reached in peak and will start fading over the next decade.