PCA SDR

Jad wrote:

David J Marguglio wrote:I think that Bob correctly identified the difference between fast and good.

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While slicks do make a difference the cost is roughly the same as Hoosiers (in 18" sizes), which I believe Bob drove at california speedway...that was why Jad had to bring out the chip so he could beat him. So many folks immediately relate lots of dollars with slicks because Goodyear for example since these are so expensive. Those are expensive but the Pirelli's I run (and Jack runs) are within $100 of Hoosiers in the same sizes.


Burl, I have to bring the car home as well and I do not want to leave the track either, that is why I don't......but that does not mean you can't go fast!

FWIW Here is what I think is going on.

The 964 is the last iteration of the original swing axle design rear suspension 911. It has the oversteer and "pitch and catch" character of the original 911 rear suspension that is desirable for autocross plus the power and torque of the 3.6 engine that earlier 911's don't have.

The 993 and later 911's on the other hand, have the new multilink rear suspension which dials out some of the oversteer and "pitch and catch" ability. This makes the 993 less easy to rotate in autocross but much friendlier and less daunting to drive on a high speed "real race " track.

kary wrote:

Jad wrote:

David J Marguglio wrote:I think that Bob correctly identified the difference between fast and good.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

While slicks do make a difference the cost is roughly the same as Hoosiers (in 18" sizes), which I believe Bob drove at california speedway...that was why Jad had to bring out the chip so he could beat him. So many folks immediately relate lots of dollars with slicks because Goodyear for example since these are so expensive. Those are expensive but the Pirelli's I run (and Jack runs) are within $100 of Hoosiers in the same sizes.


Burl, I have to bring the car home as well and I do not want to leave the track either, that is why I don't......but that does not mean you can't go fast!

I think that was about the only time any KP driver used Hoosiers as they are too $$$$$. Bob splurged once, but everyone else just runs Toyos or Victorracers. Toyos are $600 per set, delivered, mounted and balanced and last nearly a season with 2 drivers (granted it is a limited season for me, but still....) Slicks would be 5 times that price, but are the cost of admission to the next level.

Another consideration most of us in KP have is that we are also teaching spouses/others to drive. These co-drivers are going to have it tough learning with the speed we already have, they don't need another 100 hp and slicks

How about everyone runs Toyos at BW and we compare times

Good point about the 993 suspension Bob.

I personally think that the 964 has to be driven differently or it will bite you similar (but less) to the older 911. The modern Porsche due to better suspension are more forgiving.

Jad: I will be on unshaved Toyo RA/1's with heavy CUP I wheels at Buttonwillow. Hopefully we will get a lot of track time so the tires will wear down a bit.

Can't wait for Buttonwillow having fun and drive my car back home

You won't like unshaved Toyos. They do not grip nearly as well as Victorracers, but wait until they eventually wear down to about the wear bars (1/2 tire life), then they will be better and you will realize you have already done more events than you could have on the VR's. From there they just keep getting better, or at least that is my and several others, experience.

Should be a fun event with a good KP showing and only 1-2 off boost corners

I like how you are working on your excuses well before the event, that is a sign of a true champion

Jad wrote:
How about everyone runs Toyos at BW and we compare times

Ok you buy me a set of toyo's and I will drive them at buttonwillow

I have ten used R-compound tires in my garage, so I'm not going to get new ones for Buttonwillow. Instead, I'm thinking of running my two old 255 Toyo RA1's on the back, and some used Victoracers on the front. I don't know if it will be the fastest, but it will be the cheapest.

For those counting, that will be either 16 points or 12 points configuration, depending on what my car really weighs.

Last year I did 2:11.93 using 255 victoracer rears and the same basic setup (which last year was only 6 points), so my goal will be first to improve on that time. The top 10 cutoff was Jim Copp's 2:08.06, so I don't think that's going to happen.

Bob, you wimp, the last time I was there I ran a 2:07.xx and that was BEFORE my car was setup. You are so toast

PS We are ignoring the fact that the last time I was there was in 2003 and it was a different configuration as this point can't be meaningful

PSS Greg Phillips tried the 3 types of tires and 3 types of rims at the last AX, but I don't think it worked as well as you would think , so I will be sticking with the boring 4 Toyos that were unshaven until the last QDE which hopefully shaved them enough.

kary wrote:

Jad wrote:
How about everyone runs Toyos at BW and we compare times

Ok you buy me a set of toyo's and I will drive them at buttonwillow

Oh, I take that request back! I have some Toyo's. They are 22.5" in size. I ma not sure I can fit them on the Porsche though as they are Toyo Heavy Truck tires for our Motor Coach

Jad wrote:Bob, you wimp, the last time I was there I ran a 2:07.xx and that was BEFORE my car was setup. You are so toast

PS We are ignoring the fact that the last time I was there was in 2003 and it was a different configuration as this point can't be meaningful

Yes. I think that star mazda hairpin is worth a few seconds, but I'm prepared to take a little bit of a beating -- as long as I beat most of the waterpumpers.

bobbrand wrote:

Jad wrote:
Yes. I think that star mazda hairpin is worth a few seconds, but I'm prepared to take a little bit of a beating -- as long as I beat most of the waterpumpers.

Thems are fight'n words!

Toyo will be well represented as I will be on a new set of shaved RA1's. I'm predicting a waterpumper 1-2 finish with a track littered with RSA's with soar left arms from pointing us by. I might even put on a fresh coat of wax so it looks extra nice on the podium.

Oh boy, it's getting thick in here now....

Sounds like you guys should start a Toyo spec series in KP?

Bill - I think I'll take the bet on the 1-2 finish for the waterpumpers. There is a red 914 that has not seen wax in years that may give you a run and lots of others in the wings.

I'm predicting you'll have so much fun that you'll give up on the concourse stuff, retire the 951 from racing and start looking for a track beast for you and the wifee.

Hey! I resemble that remark!!
Or at least my car does.
FYI The car was washed and waxed in mid 2004 right before the last SOW event.

I think the air flow is better with a little dirt on the car...kind of like the dimples on a golf ball

Pete Millikin wrote:Bill - I think I'll take the bet on the 1-2 finish for the waterpumpers. There is a red 914 that has not seen wax in years that may give you a run and lots of others in the wings.

I'm predicting you'll have so much fun that you'll give up on the concourse stuff, retire the 951 from racing and start looking for a track beast for you and the wifee.

Sorry, my comment was directed to the KP class... unless a 914 will be running in KP. I'm sure there are plenty of others that will be happy to feed me a mouthful of humble pie. I expect that. Regardless, its all in fun. I expect to be off the pace as I will be learning the track and my skills at a big track.