911 Club Coupe

[kary]

I guess the real question is have you driven each of them and which drives better? The GT3 is too rough for the street and too soft for the track, so it will need some work, but I have no real info on the feel of the club car, do you?

Jad, that is something I have never heard, the GT3 is too rough for the street? Is that your experience or someone else's? My gawd, that is one of the easiest and nicest cars to drive on the street, and all the owners I have talked with really like it for the street because it is not harsh. I think it is fantastic for the street (with an alignment that works, not the factory's). But then when you compare it to the couches of the other models then maybe it is too stiff

[Jad]

Kary,
The Dente's are the ones that have complained the most. You tell Steve he is a wimp and wrong. Not to mention the front splitter being too low etc. It is a nice car, but there are lots of reasons the 996's that you hate so much, are better street cars.

[kary]

Kary,
The Dente's are the ones that have complained the most. You tell Steve he is a wimp and wrong. Not to mention the front splitter being too low etc. It is a nice car, but there are lots of reasons the 996's that you hate so much, are better street cars.

Well, Steve is getting a bit long in the tooth But seriously, I do not hate the 996, I just like the 993 better, and for that matter, I like the 997 as well!

[Chris Benbow]

Well I told them I'm passing on the car.
Hopefully someone else in San Diego will be able to take advantage of the opportunity.

[rss996]

GT3 is too rough on street and oh yea, no sunroof!!!!!!!

[martinreinhardt]

The GT3 was not designed for comfort, it's a pure 911 derived from the Carrera Cup (nothing in common with the 996 other than the shape); race cars like to be run at high RPM and therefore it is proably not everybodies daily driver. I am at 100% certain that the GT3 does not have as much power at "LOW" RPM as the 997 PCA Club, but the GT3 will eat the 997 alive on track conditions.

The GT3 is a car for racecar drivers!!! Personally, I think it is the best Porsche so far.

[Dan Chambers]

Jad, that is something I have never heard, the GT3 is too rough for the street? Is that your experience or someone else's? My gawd, that is one of the easiest and nicest cars to drive on the street, and all the owners I have talked with really like it for the street because it is not harsh.

Kary:

My experience: I actually drove the Dente's friend's GT-3 shortly after Steve started storing it. (I've also driven my brother-in-law's stock 996 at A-X's and DE's.) I can tell you, unequivically, the GT-3 is a pure race-bred car, that's barely modified to be street legal. Unless you de-tune the suspension radically, you'll feel/hear every tiny blip in the road, and scrape the splitter/rocker-panels on driveways. The steering is so sensitive, there is a tendency to "over-input" when driving the streets; the light-weight seats are about as comfortable as busstop benches with 5-points; the engine and road noise is greatly increased due to the sound-proofing reduction; the throttle response in IMMENSE with all that power and weight reduction vs. a typical 996 3.6L, the brakes are ... well PCCB...... very "sensitive" vs a stock 996; and minus the PASM/SPASM/PSM stuff and rear-wheel drive with LSD, the GT-3 is ready for throttle steering ... even if you aren't.

If I had to compare cars, I'd say the GT-3 drives more like Lewis Wise's old Vipor Green RS, or Mark Tyler's track car .... both of which I've driven.... than a 996 .... or even a street stock 993 (Like Chuck Sharp's ... which I've driven at DE's) for that matter.

Next chance you get, hop in a GT-3, then immediately into a stock 996, and see what I'm talking about. The GT-3 offers "pure driving excitement." The 996 is a street car.

Personally, I think you've logged so many hours in your Modified 993 at the big tracks you may have forgotten how "cush" the street stock 996's might be. But, I'm just assuming here.

My 2-pesos.

See y'all tomorrow, SE Lot.

[MikeD]

My experience: I actually drove the Dente's friend's GT-3 shortly after Steve started storing it. (I've also driven my brother-in-law's stock 996 at A-X's and DE's.) I can tell you, unequivically, the GT-3 is a pure race-bred car, that's barely modified to be street legal. Unless you de-tune the suspension radically, you'll feel/hear every tiny blip in the road, and scrape the splitter/rocker-panels on driveways. The steering is so sensitive, there is a tendency to "over-input" when driving the streets; the light-weight seats are about as comfortable as busstop benches with 5-points; the engine and road noise is greatly increased due to the sound-proofing reduction; the throttle response in IMMENSE with all that power and weight reduction vs. a typical 996 3.6L, the brakes are ... well PCCB...... very "sensitive" vs a stock 996; and minus the PASM/SPASM/PSM stuff and rear-wheel drive with LSD, the GT-3 is ready for throttle steering ... even if you aren't.

SWEET! I sooooooo want one now . Like that's a news flash , I've wanted one for a long time... Someone spot me $80K so I can get JP's Artic Silver one to match my Box!!! I promise it'll be put to good use .

[Bob Gagnon]

The 996 is a GT car, the GT3 is a sports car.

[paul hastings]

I likely have the least seat time experience in this group but, I was fortunate to get behind the wheel of a GT-3 for a few miles. It felt like I was driving a sports car. A really, really good one!! With A/C, stereo, cushioned leather seats it does have a few comforts. The other 911's are luxury GT cars in my opinion and the the GT-3 as mentioned above a sports car but, still with a few driver comforts. Porsche sure got the GT-3 right. With cars seeming to get heavier and heavier it's nice to see some reduction in weight in a sports car. Still over 3000 lbs!

[kary]

The GT-3 offers "pure driving excitement." The 996 is a street car.

Personally, I think you've logged so many hours in your Modified 993 at the big tracks you may have forgotten how "cush" the street stock 996's might be. But, I'm just assuming here.

Dan, it is interesting that you point out the pure driving excitement of the GT3. That is what was lost in the 996 that was available in the 993 and prior 911 types. Other than the 996 looks, that is why I do not like the 996's, for that reason alone, no excitement. You also compare the GT3 to older 911's like Lewis' green meany. Another comparison that supports that feeling. Clearly Porsche lost that excitement in the normal street car but offered it in the GT3. They wanted to sell more cars and could not if they provided a car that most street drivers could not drive safely. They will do the same for the 997 and beyond, that is provide a excitement car for those that do not mind a small amount of steering input versus over driving the car like most street drivers. Too bad that we have to pay large sums of money for less luxury to get these exciting cars. It clearly costs far more to make them plush, but then there are larger volumes sold now these days.

And yes, I have logged a lot of hours in my unmodified 993, even on the street these days in a race seat and six points, stiff cup suspension, stiff chasis (roll cage), and no interior....pure fun, that is all I can say!!!

[Greg Phillips]

I think the other thing to consider is the different engines between the Club Coupe and GT3. The 997 still uses the "integrated dry sump" while the GT3 gets the real thing based on the air-cooled cases like the cup cars and tubos.
If you are thinking of going to the track, this is a big difference. Although the power in the Club Coupe is about the same as the GT3, it is a totally different motor.

Greg

[Bob Gagnon]

Excellent point Greg on the engine-

I would like to add that the GT3 has a pressure lubricated racing gearbox with an oil-water heat exchanger to cool it and interchangable ratios. Porsche racing has a lot of ratios and different limited slip differenttials available for this gearbox. Also this gearbox is fully rebuildable.

The normal 996 has no serviceable internals let alone different ratio gears available. It is junk by comparison.

Add to that the Gt3's monoball equipped suspension with adjustable stab bars.....you get the point.

[David J Marguglio]

Too bad that we have to pay large sums of money for less luxury to get these exciting cars.

This is a good point Kary. I am really surprised that a company that likes to offer a new car to its dealers every six months (12 iterations of the 911 and so forth) hasnt awoken to the idea of re-releasing a decontented version of the base 997. Strip all of the sound deadening matterial, light-weight carpet, a/c delete, radio delete, sunroof delete, stiffer suspension and call it....mmm...an "RS America" or something like that. Charge $6-10k less than a base 997 and you have a winner!

Where do I come up with these ideas?

[Dan Chambers]

Kary:

Yes, I absolutely agree with you on every point. The steet cars really separate the "comfy" drivers from the "other drivers" who would buy a GT-3. I'm sure if profit wasn't the motivator behind the 996/997, Porsche would build more GT-3 type autos for the more hardcore drivers. But, the money has to come from somewhere, or I think we'd see Porsche go the way of other car makers like Deimler-Chrysler (sp?). So, I suppose Porsche has the right idea right now....

And Greg really "hits it on the head" with engine lubrication issues in the 996/997. I'd look into alternative dry-sump or possible accu-sump type technology if I were to ever track a 996/997 seriously. Then again, after all the cost of mod's to make the street 996/997 cars more track-able and safer to lube the motor in high lateral G's .... I'd be better off just starting with a GT-3. I guess Porsche has it right after all. If you want "cush" buy cush: if you want "Track" buy track.... GT-3, that is.

Wonder what the new Caymen S will be like on the track....