Call for Zone 8 Rules Change Proposals for 2016

[JayG]

I would like to see some allowance for tire size in SS, 20 mm seems reasonable.

It puts people at a huge competitive disadvantage if forces them into a CC class.
For example. I run SS02 in my 04 986 S and I am competitive. If tire width forces me into CC, I would be running in CC06 with highly modified cars and would not be competitive at all.
Not competitive = less fun

AX, especially the SS classes are for fun and you want to at least be competitive in your class.
I like many do not want to do lots of expensive performance modifications that would put us in a CC class

I know that changing the front/back sizes a little can make a big difference in the car from lots of understeer to more balanced.
On the Boxster in 17's the factory spec is 205 front and 255 rear. Going to 225 front, which many do, gets rid of some understeer
On 18's factory spec is 225 front and 265 rear which I believe will have less understeer
also as others have mentioned, if only factory sizes are allowed, it restricts tire selection somewhat
for example 3 popular tires, Hancook RS3, POTENZA RE-71R and DIREZZA ZII STAR SPEC are not available in 205/50-17, but are in 225/45-17

just my 2 cents for what its worth

[dcarusillo]

Gents appreciate the time and effort tweaking the updated rules!

I did notice the rationale for rejecting Proposal # 7 could have been stated more concisely.....

PDK=Points Don't Kount

Continue the good fight!

[sf.in.sd]

On the Boxster in 17's the factory spec is 205 front and 255 rear. Going to 225 front, which many do, gets rid of some understeer
On 18's factory spec is 225 front and 265 rear ...

Just to be clear. Assuming above is true and Boxster's had an 18inch 225/265 setup, then the way I read the revision- Boxster's can still run 285 rear (but only 245 front).

Original rule comment is copied below.

"We have specifically seen Boxster’s in Zone 8 run 265 front tires and 285 rear tires on a car which was originally
equipped with 205/255 tires. This loophole is a huge advantage in competition and should be removed as it
destroys the spirit of the Street Stock classes."

Shawn

[JayG]

OK, now I am confused

My understanding is the proposed rule change will restrict tires to the maximum sizes that were available from the factory as stated in the users manual, not that size +20mm.
My point and others as well is that it should allow factory maximum +20mm in width

Now in thinking about it, does that mean that if 225/265 are max stock in 18" and 205/255 in 17", could you run 225/265 in 17" and still be in compliance?

[mrondeau]

Thank you to all who commented and those who work on the rules committee.

One thing I'd like everyone to remember: The goal of the rules should be to equalize vehicles in each class. This should be based on the potential of an optimized vehicle. Zone 8 results and driver/car comparisons are not true data. Just because a car is not being driven to its potential, does not mean it can't be or that it does or does not have an advantage over another vehicle. A CC10 car that is maxed out and optimized should have the potential to win its class over a car with less points or that is not optimized. A known driver with skill in different cars, each optimized, would be a better way to determine advantages, especially with data from a data logger to compare.

Optimized cars will have the ideal set up for the track being run, new tires at the correct pressures and just enough gas to get through timed runs. Very few cars are truly optimized at our level. There is usually something that can be done to improve set up. Using statistical evidence to justify reasoning for rule changes should not be an end around to avoid rule changes that make sense.

A really good driver in an optimized car will quite often be able to beat a mediocre to good driver in a potentially faster car due to skill. That does not take away the potential of that car. It just makes it harder to quantify statistically. Changing the rules should be more about the car than the driver. Who wants to share a car with Jad Duncan and see what that car can really do?

I know for a fact that the headers on my car give it a 30 hp increase to the ground based on dyno results. That's a fact. I know that PDK, Launch Control and electronic aids are faster. Those are facts supported by data from Porsche. Whether or not a driver gets full advantage out of them should not weigh into the equation.

Not everyone can win. Not everyone should. If you aren't winning, drive better. You may not always win, but it's a lot of fun trying. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. It's the competition that's fun, right Steve?

[rshon]

Jay -

I'm not sure you are looking at the Round 2 document.

http://www.zone8.org/assets/docs/2015/Rules/RuleProposalsR2_2015.pdf

The revised proposal would give folks a 20mm allowance above the widest factory tire sizes (front and rear) for that model series. The rules never put any caveats or restrictions on tire diameters. Some clarification wording on this proposal will be coming out in the next release.

[JayG]

Right you are Russell, my bad.
I guess that what happens when you are late for dinner.

Yes, some clarification should be added on the width
Is the max width per wheel size or just the widest tire that was factory available regardless of wheel size?

Same thing on track. For instance on an 04 Boxster, with 16" wheels the rear tack is 1528 mm and with 18" wheels 1514 mm
So then, would a track of 1542 mm (1528 + 14) be allowed on 18" wheels or just 1528 (1514 + 14) ?
And then on a Boxster S, the 16" wheel was not a factory option, so would you be able to use the base measurements and go to 1542 mm?

What about special edition / anniversary models that may have other tire/wheel sizes yet are the same model family?

[JayG]

with the 14mm proposed maximum track width increase, are spacers allowed for SS?

[jbrennen]

with the 14mm proposed maximum track width increase, are spacers allowed for SS?

I can't say with authority for PCA rules specifically, but by the SCCA's interpretation of wheel allowances, a wheel plus a spacer is treated for rules purposes the same as a two-piece wheel (as if the spacer was just a detached part of the wheel).

Or in other words, rather than make you add 5mm of metal onto the mounting surface of your wheel to make a different legal wheel configuration (an expensive and possibly irreversible procedure), they will let you use a 5mm spacer.


I used to run 13mm spacers in SCCA competition, but I was also in a class where wheels were unlimited.

[rshon]

with the 14mm proposed maximum track width increase, are spacers allowed for SS?

For this proposed rule, yes, so long as the combination of wheel offset and spacers does not cause the track width to exceed the maximum stock track width for that axle (front or rear) plus the 14mm allowance.