Auto-x Series Horror Story

[MikeD]

* Holtville seems like the logical choice. But it's 2+ hours away. Likely that all clubs would see a major drop in participation at their events.

* Seems like the Marine Corps would welcome the idea of a Motorsports park right outside the base. Back when I was in, we were always getting lectured about safe driving over long weekends, etc. LOTS of Marines die on our highways. A Motorsports park would go a long way to helping that battle. Maybe they would be a little more open to the idea if the clubs (i.e. its members) offered free driver training for the Marines...

* I'd like to hear more about the Borrego thing. Maybe the clubs could help the private effort?

[RickK]

Big article today in the Ubion Trib about Ralph Rubios efforts to build a track in San Diego. Actually, his former efforts as he has given up after a few years with no progress. The MCAS at Miramar was one of his prime targets but discussions with the military never got past that stage.

See it at http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20051027/news_lz1s27loctrak.html

[Tim Comeau]

I, too , have foretold of the impending doom of the stadium and its impact on our driving events. This after we just spent millions of our tax dollars for the seat expansion project. City Council idiots!
Anyway, ax'ing is a large part of our club's income and it's going to hurt when we stop doing it. We've had a committee in the past (94-95?) that was tasked with exploring all available options in the local area, including Holtville, which I personally don't consider local.
I have seen no practical work-around for this problem.
Try Miramar again? Base commanders rotate every 18 months? Offer to contribute to their Morale, welfare, recreation fund? I believe that was the deal with the PCA using Pt. Mugu? The skipper at the time was a sports car fan.

[gulf911]

Rick,

The cost of renting Qualcomm is $1500/day for a not-for profit organization such as PCA (West lot, SE lot, NE lot, all the same price). I just looked at the 2005 schedule on their website and estimate that there are 5-10 autoclub events each month at Qualcomm. For-profit groups pay more for the stadium lots and get first choice on dates -- thus limiting availability to the car clubs. I'd guess that usage by car clubs might be towards the 10 events/month with more availability.

With an average of over 100 attendees per ax and usually 10 events or so a year, $40 per person....thats quite a bit of profit to be lost, or that could be used to pay for a more expensive venue?. I would assume no more Witness?

[Greg Phillips]

Rick,

The cost of renting Qualcomm is $1500/day for a not-for profit organization such as PCA (West lot, SE lot, NE lot, all the same price). I just looked at the 2005 schedule on their website and estimate that there are 5-10 autoclub events each month at Qualcomm. For-profit groups pay more for the stadium lots and get first choice on dates -- thus limiting availability to the car clubs. I'd guess that usage by car clubs might be towards the 10 events/month with more availability.

With an average of over 100 attendees per ax and usually 10 events or so a year, $40 per person....thats quite a bit of profit to be lost, or that could be used to pay for a more expensive venue?. I would assume no more Witness?

No we would just have to raise the AX fees
I guess that is one way to get out of the editor's job

Greg

[Brett Souza]

See it at http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20051027/news_lz1s27loctrak.html

The same article talks about Barona. With the land they have and the amout of $$$ that these events bring in, maybe someone should be talking to them. If not to put a track in, at least they could start with a huge parking lot...

[Bob Gagnon]

I wonder is there any issue with the lot availability for the 2007 Porsche Parade driving event at Qualcomm?

Even if available, I'm also concerned that the city may let the lot go even further to seed by then, the condition is terrible now- what will it be like by Summer 2007?

[Ted Myrus]

We are O.K. with the West lot for the Parade autocross. I have been in contact and they are up for a mid-week, two day, event Wednesday, July 4 and Thursday, July 5.

True, the Stadium/parking lot will go away one day. If the Chargers leave the property will be redeveloped. If the Chargers stay, there will be a new stadium with a parking structure and a minimal lot for buses, VIP's, etc. This will take several years to occur. If the facility is privately developed the City would still have to cover the infrastructure costs (water, sewer, roads, etc). The city has no money and no ability to borrow money for this project. Hell they can't maintain what they already have! Speaking of maintenance, look for the pavement to continue to deteriorate. Race around the pot holes.

I favor Holtville. There are some issues with the County and the lease holder. However, it is and has been a race track for a very long time. It needs an influx of money. Repaving, restrooms, timing, etc. But I think this is the most doable venue.

[MikeD]

Ted, who owns Holtville? I've heard rumors that the current ownership/management can be a real pain in the butt. Is it possible for the club to pool $$$ and buy Holtville?

[David J Marguglio]

I vote for staged tarmac timed (for speed dudes) rallies on closed roads!!! (see earlier post under Nascar thread)

[Greg Phillips]

I vote for staged tarmac timed (for speed dudes) rallies on closed roads!!! (see earlier post under Nascar thread)

I thought those were called tours

And always ended at a bar

Greg

[Dan Chambers]

Well, I'm bumping this thread because I saw on local news last night where the Chargers are asking for a 60-acre parcel (gimme) from the city to help develop the current stadium sight into housing (condos, actually. Don't know why they use the term "housing" when it should be condo'ed..... or is it cond..demned? Anyway....) If you were watching the broadcast, they flashed a picture of the proposed "Village in the Valley" as part of the story.

Important to know: in 2006 there will be a ballot initiative for the voters of San Diego to decide what should be done with the land at the Q. You might remember the Stadium Expansion Bond Initiative a few years back. Well, the City, and the Spanos Group weren't satisfied with a 186-Million-Dollar bonded expansion of Jack Murphy Stadium (that - during the construction process- was held for ransom and paid by Qualcomm .... thus the name change). Now, they want to re-invent the wheel by building a tax-revenue generating development program, and a new stadium for future Super-Bowls. (Ironically, when the Superbowl was here a couple of years ago, the President of the NFL and the sports casters all said the current set-up in San Diego was the "perfect location" for future Superbowls, with great transportation, fantastic weather, and a really nice stadium!)

So, the vote will go to the people of San Diego: rebuild the stadium and surrounding parking lot, and give away 60 prime acres for free to the Spanos Group for windfall home-sales profits. Or, "just say no" to Spanos, risk losing the Chargers to another city and sell all the land around the stadium to independent developers like Lennar, McMillan, Broadmore, etc for housing/condos and commercial property .... like so much of what currently surrounds the stadium. Tough choices. But the stadium will end up a part of San Diego History in the next few years. To be sure.

There will be a city negociating team, with a special Contracts Negotiator, and two city council members .... one of them, Donna Frye, .... and the City Attorney (to insure no more paid-empty seat guaranttees to team franchises). The city and the people of San Diego will have a voice through this committee. That's the good news.

Watch your mailbox for the initiatives, talk to your city council reps., get involved if you have interest in what happens there. Remember, your council members can't read your mind. You need to tell them what you think, and what you want .... even if it's to keep the stadium the way it is. (Maybe a bit naive, but what could it hurt?) Emails, letters, it all works if you communicate to your reps.

My thoughts......

[Kim Crosser]

Ok - different approach. Build it and they will come.

Even if the Chargers stay and the Stadium remains, the parking lot will continue to deteriorate. Aren't we all getting a bit tired of trying to avoid decomposing pavement, swales, drains, nails, light poles, and broken glass?

Why not begin to do something proactive?

There must be locations that are feasible to build a modest motorsports facility (the Miramar landfill? under the Miramar approach/flight path? up by Ramona?).

Possible plan:

1. Form a small committee to investigate
2. Get participation from other interested groups (BMWCCA, SCCA, British Car Clubs, karting, motorcycles, ???)
3. Find some candidate locations within the County (maybe set a limit of 1/2 the distance to Holtville from the Stadium?)
4. Determine the cost to construct a decent road course (maybe include a drag strip for the Race Legal guys if they are interested?) - don't forget enough paved area for parking and our Performance Driving School
... yes, I know we are talking at least 7 figures here - rural road construction costs can exceed $1M per mile ...
(of course, we can skip the curbs! )
5. Work out different options for the facility - lighting? plumbing or just port-a-potties? bleachers? trailer storage? etc.
6. Work out the operating costs (leasing, insurance, debt service, taxes, maintenance, fees, services, etc.)
7. Identify possible sources of capital funding - be creative (PCNA, BMW, dealers, celebrities/companies [name the track? "Jay Leno Motorsports Park"], individual contributions, financing, etc. (can it be non-profit and get tax-deductable donations - especially if we get Race Legal involved?)
8. Treat this as a business operation and put together a business plan and prospectus - heck, maybe one of our members would like to own it!
9. Go for it!

If I were based in San Diego, I would be happy to participate fully, but since my office is in Fremont (SF Bay area), my time in SD is pretty limited. I am still willing to help with this if there are some other motivated individuals who will get involved. (We need at least one person with some legal background, one with some construction experience [preferably highway/road experience], and someone who has done a business plan before [preferably successful].)

Any takers??? Any reasons to NOT do this? (Other than inertia, of course. )

I could be very wrong, but my guess is that the local motorsports community currently pays at least $200K-$300K/year to rent space at the Q, and I am pretty sure PCA-SDR would rent more time if it were available - I have to believe the others would as well. If annual operating expenses could be kept to a minimum, a project like this might be financeable to a pretty large number.

[kary]

Dan an dothers, it seems obvious to me that the political powers that control our city, or maybe more accurately, the powerful business people that control our city want that land to make more money and want a new stadium to also do the same, each in their own way. They are not going to pay for the stadium themselves otherwise they would not make enough money so they will get us to do that. This is obvious which we can all generally agree.

What I am not understanding throughout all the posts here, is what exactly can we do about this? Talking to the representatives certain cannot hurt but we do not have enough power even if all the members of PCA SDR were to send a communication to a representative. 1,000 or 2,000 people do not rank in the scheme of things compared to the thousands that might want a new stadium or to the busines people that influence our city representation in ways we do not completely understand nor have access to. The city will represent this change as a great tax revenue which is good for our city even though we would spend 100's of millions build or redoing the Q.

It seems to me we need to get someone powerful (business people) involved where they can influence decisions. For example, the drag racing that is sponsored at the Q would also go away if they followed any of their Q proposals. This is a good example for city officials since they advertised reduced street racing as a result of the events. This would end thus street racing would increase which would increase deaths on our streets. Other business men have failed, or were stopped in trying to build a race park. Heck, they were investing their own money and could not get it through, why is that? So even having powerful business men involved does not seem to work, at least not at this point.

So, I am not sure what we can actually do other come up with alternative sites for our events, otherwise our clubs future and revenue to continue are at risk.

Maybe we need to think more out of the box. Other types of events, joining in with other clubs to make them cost effective, or banding together as an orgaization and pooling private member money to build something of our own?

[RickK]

Kim, I think that is the right thing to do but given the failure of other recent groups in efforts like this things do not look good. There are many obstacles to be understood, EPA, noise issues, liability and the cost of insurance. Revenue streams could come from track rental (obviously) but maybe also things like trailer storage on the property. Big issue in SD is just the cost of land, even on the outskirts, nevermind the construction costs.

Race Legal may or may not be interested bacause they have some relationship with Barona these days though they may want more track days available. Also since Cajon speedway closed there is probably a need for a karting track in town as well.

I would volunteer to be a part of this committee if the right mix of other people were to get involved also.