can I run a Ferrari 355 or 360 at the AX and DE's

[Dan Chambers]

Dave:

With all due respect for Jack M. and Jeff G., the QDE's are the responsibility of the Autocross Team this year. The TT team has "passed" on DE's at the Q this year based on their very busy schedule "abroad." The AX Team took it upon themselves to be completely responsible for the QDE's to provide a local/stepping stone event to the Big Track Time Trials. If the A-X Team hadn't stepped forward, there'd be no QDE's. Now, if the TT team wants to permit non-Porsches at their big track events, that's great. That's their call. The A-X Team is the party responsible for QDE's and their rules this year.

As for the QDE's and X cars, the same rule applies for QDE's as Autocrosses:

Contact the A-X Chairs (ax@pcasdr.org) regarding your non-Porsche vehicle and your interest in driving an event prior to the event (preferably a week or more before). The Chairs will evaluate the opportunity to participate based on current pre-registered numbers, possible total registered numbers (this to allow primary consideration to Porsches to participate in a Porsche Club event), and with review by the Tech Inspection Chair and Safety Chairs the appropriateness and safety considerations of the proposed vehicle at a multiple-lap, multiple-car-with-passing, higher speed event. If your vehicle is considered safe/appropriate to share the track with Porsches, and there is room for your car based on anticipated attendance, you're very welcome to participate.

With cars sharing the course and passing one another at speed, X car considerations are tougher at QDE's than Autocrosses, where the track isn't shared, and passing issues don't arise.

As examples of X car considerations, Ferarris, "Lambo's," Miata's, Corvettes, Mustangs, Camaro's would all be okay if the participation numbers and safety equipment guidelines are met. Karts, powered skateboards, scooters, motorcycles, radio operated mini cars would be out.

On another note, I have to agree about the GT-3 vs Ferarri, or any other car. The GT-3 (or GT-2) would be a very appropriate 'track' car. And, there'd be no X-car issue.

If you have questions about X-car guidelines, contact the A-X Team (ax@pcasdr.org) or feel free to give me a call: 619-889-9331.

See you this weekend!!

[Bob Gagnon]

Curt- In reference to your post on first page of this string, my wife would be impressed if I dressed half as well as SpongeBob, no way I can meet his level of style

[Carl Scragg]

Dan and Gary deserve special thanks for the efforts they have put in this year. Putting on the AX events is a demanding enough assignment, but taking on the responsibility for the QDE's as well is above and beyond. . .

The QDE's this year have been fast and fun, with lots of track time -- a perfect place to become comfortable with the step from AX to TT, to tune you race car, or just to duel it out with your friends. Good job, guys

[jack miller]

David M,

Sorry, but my affirmative answer was in response to TT and DEs that are at the big tracks. As Dan noted, the QDEs are the purview of the AX chairs. Dan enumerated the concerns/issues for deciding on whether to allow X cars at the Q or not. Of course, primarily tech has to be passed, as he noted. The remaining issue is attendance. Recent Q events have been pretty light, so I would hope that the AX crew is open to X cars (cars, not karts or whatever else Dan listed there). Having a few other marques really adds to the event, IMO. Given that the # of X cars at a big track event rarely exceeds 5, and the # at the Q is likely to be fewer, I can't see what the problem would be, but as Dan states, that's not my call. Gary and Dan have done great stepping up and adding those QDEs to the schedule. Hopefully it will result in more AX guys coming to the track with the TT crew. Maybe we can require X car drivers to help set up the track!

[David J Marguglio]

Danno:

I just left you a message; couldnt tell if it was home or work. Anyway, please give me a call re: X cars at 858-456-4933. Thanks!

[Dan Chambers]

Dave M.

Just a reminder, cars without hard tops must have arm restraints as well as 5-point harnesses. Don't forget the arm restraints!

[MikeD]

Don't forget the arm restraints!

Dave, if you need arm restraints you can borrow mine, I wont be using them this weekend. You'd have to pick them before Friday noon though.

Let me know.

[sean996]

I for one want to see how well a 355 or a 360 compares to the various P car models . . . especially the GT3

Has anyone seen comparable times between a 355 and 911 with comparable tires?

Has anyone driven one agressively ? I've had test drives on the street but haven't pushed it.

Sean

[jack miller]

I drove a 355 at Willow. Nicely balanced, plenty of torque. Gearbox takes a bit of getting used to. Since it wasn't my car, I only drove it at 11/10ths. Just kidding. This particular car I drove at 8.5/10th max. I'd say, pushing it, it would have been somewhere between a Boxster and 996. I have not driven the 360 at the track. Rob. B, let's talk to Joe about getting that garage queen out there.

Here's a list for us to discuss. Cars that make a new driver believe he's better than he really is (in other words, fast out of the box) in order, IMO:

1. Boxster S
2. NSX
3. Z06 Corvette
4. new M3
5. 996

I'd put the 355 and GT3 quite a bit higher on such a list, after 993s, Mitsus, Audis, etc. The stock GT3 is a bit of a handful, with lots of power but being somewhat softly sprung (compared to a race car), and tending toward a jerky transfer of weight side to side. You can go fast but you'd better be real smooth or you're going to be tank slapping (personal experience at entry to Turn 9). Joe Hegener, Jae Lee and I spent quite a few laps at Willow playing with sway bars. I concluded that more springs is the real solution, but you have to decide how civil you want the car on the street. I'd be willing to bet that the stock 360 is easier to drive fast being so balanced. Probably like a big Boxster.

[kary]

Jack, I would put the GT3 at the top of the list you post above. That car can really bite you if you are not careful. The power is instant and strong, the balance is great IMHO but for most novice drives rear engine cars are a mystery. Seeing as I was a passenger in a GT3 that crashed pretty hard it did not take much for that car to come around. That is said in the context of relatively new drivers that do not know the car that well (nor rear engine handling characteristics). Note there have been three GT3 crashes this year that I am aware of 1 in auto-x and 2 in TT/DE. I think that puts the car at the top of the list, don't you?

[MikeD]

1. Boxster S

Number one!?!?

Gads! There goes any ego and/or sense of accomplishment I might have had

[kary]

Mike, I think your car should be displaced by the GT3, see my earlier post. does that make you feel better ?

[MikeD]

Mike, I think your car should be displaced by the GT3, see my earlier post. does that make you feel better ?

I can't disagree with what you said (having never driven a GT3). But I think what Jack is saying (and PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong) is the cars on the list are easy to drive fast (read: more forgiving) and potentially give the driver a false sense of confidence.

While the GT3 is a fast car and will give any driver faster lap times than a 986S, from the sounds of it, I do not think the driver would be left with a overly stated sense of confidence.

I think I may need to go out and get a 911 just to prove to myself that I can drive and it's not all the car...

[kary]

Mike, I do agree with your reading of Jack's statement and I read it that way also. After experiencing the GT3, and knowing from real racers the experience they have had from going from a 993 racecar to a 996 race car is very subtle in the 996 when the car gets out of shape.
I think that the GT3 DOES provide a false sense of security. When it decides to go, you need to be ready early not late. I rode in your Boxster S with you last year at Pahrump. We did a big tank slapper on that upper straight that has a slight turn at the end and then the hairpin to the longer straight. I am glad we did not go all the way around at that location (nice recovery!) Your car definitely gives signs early. When I was in the GT3 the signs were very subtle, so much so that I can see why these accidents are happening in a GT3.

Just my expereince with these cars, of course everyone has them....

[sean996]

Jack,

Did the owner of that 355 give you any info on reliability of their car?

Did you have the suspension switch on "sport" (if it had one)?

Thanks,

Sean