Corner Working Process Improvements

[Kim Crosser]

PLEASE do NOT hijack this thread for another rant on why you hate corner working. This thread is to try to identify improvements to the current corner working process by changing group orders and assignments.

Note - this is NOT exactly as in the previous thread - changes are bolded. I have a slightly better solution for the timed runs to allow students to run with their instructors in those run groups as well.


The preconditions are as follows:

Assume you have six colored run groups (Red, White, Blue, Orange, Green, and Yellow).
Each group must do corner working while three other groups drive.
Further assume that all Instructors are in either the Red, White, or Orange groups, and all students are in the Blue, Green, or Yellow groups - for simplicity, assume only one student per instructor and that the Instructor-Student pairings are:
Red Instructor = Green Student
Orange Instructor = Blue Student
White Instructor = Yellow Student
The instructor and student run groups must not conflict when corner working (i.e., an instructor cannot be corner working while the student is driving, or vice-versa). EXCEPT that for the timed runs (last two sets of run groups), instructors and students can drive separately.
The instructor should drive in their run group (with the student riding) prior to the student driving with the instructor. (*** This is a key change we would like to implement - many students have commented that the track/line became much clearer after they rode with their instructor.)
Assume that students need their instructors while corner working - but instructors do NOT need to have their students while corner working.
Corner workers CANNOT be scheduled to drive in the run group immediately after their corner working session. (Otherwise we must shut down the track to get them in.)
Corner workers (and/or their instructors/students) SHOULD NOT be scheduled to drive immediately before their corner working session. (Otherwise we have to stretch out the previous group or shut down the track.)
Only Red, White, and Orange run groups can be used for corner working during the timed runs, as this requires more experience in calling in cones and keeping cars in sequence for the timing.

Ok - find the optimum distribution of run groups and corner working that minimizes the above conflicts.

The best I have been able to come up with is:
Session 1 -
Blue corner workers (with Orange instructors as needed)
Red, Green, White run groups
Session 2 -
Green corner workers (with Red instructors as needed)
Yellow, Orange, Blue run groups
Session 3 -
Orange corner workers
White, Yellow, Red run groups
Session 4 -
Yellow corner workers (with White instructors as needed)
Green, Orange, Blue run groups
Session 5 (timed runs)
Red corner workers
White, Yellow, Orange run groups
Session 6 (timed runs)
White corner workers
Blue, Green, Red run groups

The benefits of the above are:
* All students ride with their instructors prior to their driving sessions in the first four sessions, and their instructors are available to ride with them during the timed runs.
* There are no conflicts regarding students and their instructors except for the following:
1. At the end of the second session the Orange instructors are in the cars with the Blue students, but the Orange instructors must go out to corner work for the third session. Thus, either: the Orange instructors must bail out early to work corners, the Green students (and possibly Red instructors) must work part way through the first run group of the third session, or the track must shut down at the end of the second session.
2. At the end of the fourth session, the Yellow students are out corner working (possibly with instructors) but the White instructors are driving in the first session of the fifth (1st timed) session. This isn't too bad, as the instructors can leave the students and come in early - presumably the students will understand how to do corner working within 1-2 run groups.

Can any mathematical geniuses out there come up with a better solution (or prove that such a solution isn't possible).

I am trying to get around the persistent problems of hot swapping while having students and/or instructors in cars immediately before/after corner working switches. (How many of you have had to jump out of cars recently to show up for corner working?)

Also, our current system has a problem with the scheduling of the timed runs and the policy that new drivers must be accompanied by their instructors until they have at least three autocrosses. Some instructors are corner working when their students are driving under the current scheme.

I will provide a prize to anyone who provides a better solution that meets all the criteria above.

[Dan Chambers]

Great work, Kim. I think we're all moving closer to a workable solution. Greg P. had some good ideas, as well.

[Jackie C]

I like this Kim. Thanks for your help towards hammering out a solution. Good approach!

[Jad]

What if we "think outside the box" here. One main problem is the red run group. These people tend to volunteer for all the other positions and thus are supposedly exempt from corner working. Thus ordering by run group is inherently flawed.

I don't have a solution here, but as a starting point, what about a simple sign up sheet. Have a piece of paper with 10 corners working station listed for each of the 6 corner working sessions. When you show up in the morning, write your name in a blank. Could include all positions, like setup, trailer loading, etc. Timing, tech or other people with permanent jobs could have their name permanently on the sheet, but at least everyone would know who is doing what and who is getting out of working (I know some people who seem to be above doing anything at ax I would feel better knowing why they are exempted). Maybe all students must "assist" in the first group so that they know how to corner work when it is their turn and thus instructors don't go out twice, just students.

This is just a thought that may provide ideas for a new system which works better than any combination of how we currently do things or it may have too many problems, but lets contemplate creative solutions. (With the sign up, you could pay someone to work your position from a list?)

Happy New Year!

[hmeeder]

put more people in the red run group! We're talking AX here, not Time Trial. Since we are running against the clock and not wheel to wheel, is there any real rationale for having the red run group be only the very fastest cars/drivers? It can't be "elitism" since everyone who has professed an opinion on the subject states that they are not "one of the Elite." Safety can't be the consideration either, since the cars are never on the track together. All it would take would be for Start/Finish to use their heads and give a bigger gap between 2 obviously disparate cars. There's no real reason me in my tired old 914 and Burl East's smoking fast RSA and his obvious disregard for his own personal safety can't share the run group. I promise to be nice!

Since Red is also one of the groups used to Corner Work during timed runs, we would want more experienced drivers to call cones, but there's no lack of people with enough time under their belt to be able to do this.

Consider perhaps this: Look at the most heavily populated groups (seems that is usually yellow or green) pull a couple drivers out of each that have the driving/corner working experience deemed sufficient but perhaps are not quite at instructor status. These drivers are the easiest to relocate since they are not tied to a student. Move them to the red run group. Problem solved.

PS Thanks to Kim for putting the thought into this problem. This last AX my student's Corner Working was being called as she was getting into my car for her last ride-along. She missed several laps with me, thereby not getting the extra track time all the students need and I nearly had to give up a lap to go with her to a corner. Fortunately (for me) she got assigned to the gate. I can tell you this, if I have to give up laps to instruct, the club will be short one more instructor. It aint hapenning.

PPS Why the hell do we have a gate person anyway? It's not utilized when we are in the east lot and we have the exact same safety concerns. We can't control the rest of the public that wants to go through the gate (like the mini dragsters or Race-Legal people.) What's different about the West lot? Seems that the post is a token positionwith no real teeth. Just an observation.

[Kim Crosser]

Thanks Herb for the comments - I posted the following in the other thread, but it applies here as well:

----------------------
The challenge has historically been in the White and Red run groups. Typically, there are a lot of White/Red instructors who show up early and/or are involved in running the AX (announcing, timing, safety, start/finish, etc.).

On the larger tracks, we often need 10 corner workers plus someone on the gate (=11 workers/session). If we shrink the number of corner workers, then some poor soul is going to be covering a few acres of track.

After subtracting everyone who helps out with the event, we rarely have more than 6-8 persons left in the Red run group, which is why you hear the semi-frantic calls for everyone to show up. White isn't usually as bad, but we are often short by 1-2 persons there if we exempt everyone who worked early.

We make every attempt to exempt people who help with the AX, but we cannot run if there aren't enough workers to safely staff the corners.

There are some things we can try -

* Distribute instructors more evenly through three groups (Orange, White, Red) so that there are fewer instructors assigned per group.
* Increase the size of the White and Red groups (from other groups) so that there are sufficient workers after "exemptions".
* Bring instructors off the corner working sessions mid-way through the student training sessions.
* Realign the schedule of the sessions (see the other thread [this one] on improving the corner working process itself) to minimize overlaps between driving and corner working.

With a combination of the above, I am hopeful we will make corner working a bit easier for everyone (including myself) in 2005.

Also, remember that instructing a student in corner working should only be required for true "newbies". Instructors don't have to go out with students who have worked corners previously.
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Regarding the Gate position - when we are sharing the West lot, you have a really good point - we have to let everyone in for the other events. When we aren't sharing, we DO get a lot of walk-ins who want to watch the driving and we need to get signatures on the insurance waivers from all these persons. Also, the gate person is supposed to discourage non-PCA'ers from driving into our area - both from a safety and security standpoint. We frequently have corner workers with injury/health issues who request a "non-running" position, and they are usually given the gate assignment, so this doesn't usually cut into the pool of available workers.

[Jad]

The way it works in most of the karting leagues, in order to be eligible for year end points, you MUST cornerwork one event. The entire day. So yes, that day sucks, but then you are free all of the others, no changing of corner workers throughout the day and if you want to hire someone (qualified) to work your day, you don't cornerwork at all. Actually works pretty well for them. You only need 8-10 workers per event, so it usually isn't that hard to get enough people. Plus, if people have kids that want money, they could sign up as the hired paid cornerworker.

Just another simplification thought that 'could' please a lot of people?

[Bob Gagnon]

Working corners during the practice sessions is a piece of cake compared to working the timed runs.

During practice you can take your time picking up the cones and you don't have to be as vigilant while doing it.

The timed sessions require the ability to run, pick up every cone and report it, all the while keeping track of the cars coming and going.

Some of us don't have the speed or agility to do this safely or effectively and I feel this should be taken into account during the assignments.

So, I would propose that when one is assigned to the timed sessions they be asked if they feel they can do it like the airlines ask if you are up to sitting in the exit row seats.

[Kim Crosser]

Bob - We always take into account any requests for "non-running" positions. At almost every event, there are some people with injuries or other issues that restrict their ability to work an active corner. In those cases, we usually assign them to work the gate - or sometimes to assist at Start/Finish.

The need for skilled corner workers during the timed runs is one of the challenges. Keeping track of cones being struck, re-run eligibility, cars DNF'ing in/out of sequence, etc., isn't something we want to assign to a junior worker.

Note that the Board has asked several of us to investigate paid corner working and report back - that is an option we are looking at (and one that would make my life much easier!).

In the meantime, see the following post for some ideas for the January 30 AX.

[Kim Crosser]

I am proposing the following for comment:

Note - assumptions/preconditions:
Instructors are assigned only to the Red, White, and Orange run groups.
Students are assigned only to the Green, Yellow, and Blue run groups.
Students in the Blue run group have instructors in the Red run group.
Students in the Green run group have instructors in the White run group.
Students in the Yellow run group have instructors in the Orange run group.
Students with no corner working experience must be accompanied by their instructors during their corner working session.
Students with less than 4 (3?) AX's driving experience will need to have their instructors ride with them during the timed runs as well as practice.


Proposed changes:

1. Increase the sizes of the Red, White, and Orange run groups, such that there are 20-30% more drivers in those groups than in the Blue, Green, Yellow groups. (E.g., if there are 100 drivers, put 13-15 each in Blue, Green, and Yellow, and 18-20 each in Red, White, and Orange.) This will minimize the effects of early arrival/worker exemptions and spread the impact across more groups.

2. Spread the "usual suspects" (the consistent early workers and dedicated AX workers) across the Red, White, and Orange groups. Again, this will minimize the current problem of having so many of them be in Red and White today.

3. Unless impossible due to very small turnouts or very large exemptions, instructors who corner work with their students will be "exempted" from corner working their session, like with those who show early to help with tech, throw the track, etc. This will minimize the "double session" issue.

4. Change the current sequence of corner working and run groups -
Session 1 - Green works corners (with White instructors as needed). Run groups are Orange, Yellow, Red.
Session 2 - Yellow works corners (with Orange instructors as needed). Run groups are Blue, White, Green.
Session 3 - Orange works corners. Run groups are Red, Blue, White.
Session 4 - Blue works corners (with Red instructors as needed). Run groups are Green, Orange, Yellow.
Session 5 (timed runs) - Red works corners. Run groups are White, Green, Yellow.
Session 6 (timed runs) - White works corners. Run groups are Orange, Blue, Red.

This sequence has the following advantages:
A. All students ride with their instructors prior to driving the course (each time!).
B. During timed runs, instructors for students are available to ride with them if required.
C. At corner working switch points between sessions, neither the corner workers nor their instructors should be in a car just before their corner working session, nor will they be coming off corner working when they are scheduled to drive.

There are three disadvantages that I see:
D: The instructor/student run groups are back-to-back in each case, so when the instructors come off the track, they must immediately jump in the students' cars with no breaks (this happens now at some points). Note that with the larger instructor run groups, this shouldn't be a problem in pre-grid, since cars will be coming off the track while there are still 14-18 cars left to run.
E. The Yellow/Orange and Blue/Red corner working sessions are back-to-back, so if an instructor must go out with a student and then we must use the same instructor during their corner working session, that is a LONG time out on the track. The key here is to excuse those instructors who worked corners with their students.
F. The "rest" gaps between run groups are uneven. Orange and Yellow have to wait 8 run groups from the first runs until their second runs, while Red and Blue only wait two (and then the reverse is true in the second half of the day). Meanwhile, White and Green drive, then wait two run groups, then drive, then wait two run groups, then drive again. I don't think this is a real problem, but am open to comments/suggestions.

Please review this and see if it makes sense, if the current scheme is better, or if you can devise a better scheme. Note that the "preconditions" are how the assignments are currently made to run groups - this could be changeable if you come up with a better scheme.

For those who would like an Excel spreadsheet to investigate combinations, send me an e-mail to "kim@thecrossers.net" and I will reply to you with the spreadsheet I have been using to try out various arrangements. It automatically flags conflicts in assignments so you don't have to "eyeball" it for conflicts.

[ttweed]

I am proposing the following for comment:
Students with less than 4 (3?) AX's driving experience will need to have their instructors ride with them during the timed runs as well as practice.

Has this been the procedure since we changed to the "Instructor required for the first 3 autox" policy? I must have missed that. I thought that students were on their own during timed runs regardless of their inexperience. It seems a bit unfair from a competition standpoint to have help on the timed runs for some students but not others? Having extra weight in the passenger seat is a bit of a handicap, but it seems to me that the coaching taking place could easily make up for that and more. I know my student at the last autox was 2 seconds slower when I got out of the car.

TT

[Jad]

"students" are not suppose to get times nor compete, so any unfairness is irrelevant per my understanding.

[Kim Crosser]

Students with fewer than 3 previous AXs (or the PDE school + 1 [or 2?]) are supposed to run the timed runs with their instructor and are not supposed to get points for the event (or they get 5 points - like a rain out - I am not sure how the points are handled exactly).

My question mark was because I didn't recall the exact wording of the restriction - whether it was 3 or 4 prior AXs that were required before "soloing".

I also believe that an instructor can "sign off" a student prior to the 4th AX if the instructor feels the student is really ready.

[bryanearll]

Semi-experienced students can handle a corner, especially in the non-timed runs. A simple corner instruction sheet with the basics ought to do as a refresher. It's not rocket science. I might also add that I find corner working interesting, after all it's still "new" to me and beats sitting around and doing nothing.

I didn't know that the colors meant anything to anyone. Anyone with a PDS or 1 AX should be able to handle a corner, no problem. Grouping some of the experienced students should yield more corner workers so that instructors can focus on drivers rather than corners. Slip of paper, and or preplacement instructions should cover it.

An instructor is really only needed for 1st timers and perhaps in "key locations" where they can really cover 2 or 3 corners in the case of an emergency. The difference in the timed runs is counting cones, DIF, and car numbers, as well as seeing dragging cones.

But what do I know... b

(My best time solo and my best time with an instructor were within 2/10th's of a second of each other which shows the value of an instructor being there. Solo was only marginally faster.)

[Kim Crosser]

To be clear - the 3 (or 4) AX experience requirement is only for driving. The policy changed last year to require students to drive with their instructors during the timed runs, but the run groups didn't change, so there were conflicts with instructors (in White and Red) working corners while their students should be driving.

Any person (student or not) can work corners after one session with an experienced SDR corner worker (who doesn't even have to be an instructor, just someone who has previously worked corners at a SDR event). Once the person "teaching" the corner working principles/techniques is convinced the "student" understands everything, the teacher can leave the corner - so a full session may not even be needed - especially with people who have worked in other venues (like SCCA).

During the timed runs, we definitely need more experienced workers. In addition to watching and reporting cone kills accurately and fairly, the cones must be reset much faster (to keep the course clean and fair for everyone and avoid re-runs).

Further, when a car goes off-track, calling in and maintaining (or correcting) the timing sequence is critical. If a car gets out of sequence without timing being advised quickly, the times get screwed up and we wind up doing a bunch of re-runs. During non-timed runs, you just see funny numbers on the display, and no one cares (other than the driver who didn't get to see their fabulous time ).

I am really looking for people to scrutinize the proposed changes to the run group and corner working groups (sizes, assignments, and sequencing) and to comment - good, bad, indifferent, worth trying, other suggested arrangements???