Paid Corner Workers (groan - not again) Survey

[Dan Chambers]

Its a matter of math. If 75% want to have paid corner workers, 25% want to keep it as it is....

Sorry, had to chime in...

So, Dan A., since there is no box for "Keep it as is" in this thread where are you getting your 25%? You must have written Bush's tax plan: pulling numbers out of ...... uh... "thin air" like that.



And that was my point. There was no "keep as is" box that KC offered.

Kim C. Wrote:

"How about the following for the next survey:

* We don't need any stinking corner workers!
* Pay me the $10 and I will work corners.
* $5 bid - do I hear $6?
* I spent $10 in gas to get here and drive, $1000 in tires, $40 to register, and $5000 prepping my car, and you want me to pay $10 more?
* I'll pay the $10, but complain loudly for the next couple of years.
* I'll pay the $10, but grumble to anyone who will listen.
* I'll pay the $10, and sit and fume silently.
* I'll pay the $10, and silently support the policy.
* I'll pay the $10, and loudly support paid workers.
* I'll pay $20 if it will help keep me off the corners.


I like it! I especially like the following, which apply to me:

* Pay me the $10 and I will work corners.
* I'll pay the $10, and sit and fume silently.
* I'll pay $100 if these threads stop.

Dave Marguglio, if you'll pay me to cornerwork (which I love doing), why not pay me to drive, too? Or pay me to drink beer at the end of the day? Heck, as long as I'm gettin' paid to do what I like to do, let's open up the bids! I'll take ten bucks for Cornberworking, a buck a lap, and a buck a beer. Do I hear a buck-fifty a lap? Two? Two-fifty? (Maybe I should raise the beer-drinking cash since I'm a light-weight!)

Seriously, Kim. Thanks for taking the "bold step" and keeping the Cornerworking issue going. Resolution will be here soon, I'm sure.

DC

[Gary Burch]

Kim
If this is the direction we are headed, at least for a try, count me in. Who knows it might actually work. But, drivers, don't come to me and complain about downed cones in the track or cones that you swear you didn't hit. I can promise you there will be some growing pains.

By the way Dan your car looks a little low on the sarboard side in your picture. Do the Toyo's stick so well the old 944 sways that much?

[Dan Chambers]

By the way Dan your car looks a little low on the sarboard side in your picture. Do the Toyo's stick so well the old 944 sways that much?

Actually, those are the Azenis, 205/50/15's, and that was a deeply off-camber turn in the SE lot. I send out sparks when I drive!!!!! Heeling to starboard, all hand to port!

[Kim Crosser]

Aye matey, in sailing, you would definitely need some more "rail meat" on the port side.

Or better yet, the latest in sailing technology for stability - shiftable water ballast - now we know why Porsche really went to water-cooling.

Avast, ye scurvy dogs! Stop pirating my threads.

[Gary Burch]

ARRRR, Me lad , yer thread , she be dead. We take no prisoners.

[B Wulff]

Those who do not wish to pay the $10 fee will be required to corner work for free just as always.

[Kim Crosser]

Uhh - Just so everyone understands that Brian's comment was in jest -

IF we (the Club, jointly!) decide to use paid corner workers, the $10 fee would be an automatic part of the AX registration fees. It would not be optional, and you would not have the option to work corners in lieu of the fee.

IF we go with paid workers, we would need to contract with them to provide a full complement of workers for each event - we could not count on a variable number of "volunteers" at events.
Also, we could not effectively plan corner working sessions where some "sessions" were staffed by volunteers and there were paid workers out there continuously for the day.

If this reply sounds like overkill to Brian's comment, it is really because I have gotten other similar comments that were NOT in jest, and I want to make clear what would happen if we go down this route.

[Jim Knoke]

It is just too much, as least for my old bones, to instruct, corner work, and corner work with a new to autocrossing student.

[Kim Crosser]

Of course, if we had paid corner workers, since we would eliminate two of those working sessions, then we could assign THREE students to each instructor!

[bryanearll]

I'll throw my hat in the ring by suggesting the following:

Pay $50 premium + Normal AX costs (or akin more or less) to avoid corner working, show up and drive. I would suggest that these people get to show up, get their warm up laps, then drive their timed laps and are free to go. All in, their day would be short. Mandatory preregister to qualify and no instruction, unless they volunteer.

Might be one or might be two groups, it's hard to say, but the mandatory pre-reg would tell you how to organize. The good news is that $50 would clearly separate those who care about the issue and those who don't. The additional benefit of doing warm up then timed laps would mean you don't have to "waste" your day. So for less than $100 you get to do your AX event and get in and out in a couple of hours.

Then for the rest of us, we can keep our fees inexpensive, enjoy the corners, and instruct as our hearts dictate. So for those who feel that this bit of work is an issue:

"Would you pay $50 or $60 to avoid corner working, avoid the "all day" aspect, and get to run your warm up laps right before your timed laps? Would you pay $100 bucks? You are driving a Porsche, some people might not care about the difference in money. Time is valuable."

[Black Dog]

It would be nice to have an option in this poll for "leaving things as they are," since that would be my choice.

I have been autocrossing with the club for about a year, and have found that corner working was good both from an educational perspective and as a shared responsibility. It emphasizes that an AX is something we do as a club- a group effort. I also get a kick out of seeing Porsche after Porsche trying to navigate my section of track at speed, watching where they accelerate and brake, and enjoying the mistakes other drivers make (misery loves company).

The club officers, the people who pull the trailer and throw the track and set up timing and handle registration do a lot of work without getting paid. Getting members to pitch in with work doesn't seem out of line.

-John Ross

[kary]

I'll throw my hat in the ring by suggesting the following:

Pay $50 premium + Normal AX costs (or akin more or less) to avoid corner working, show up and drive. I would suggest that these people get to show up, get their warm up laps, then drive their timed laps and are free to go. All in, their day would be short. Mandatory preregister to qualify and no instruction, unless they volunteer.

Might be one or might be two groups, it's hard to say, but the mandatory pre-reg would tell you how to organize. The good news is that $50 would clearly separate those who care about the issue and those who don't. The additional benefit of doing warm up then timed laps would mean you don't have to "waste" your day. So for less than $100 you get to do your AX event and get in and out in a couple of hours.

Then for the rest of us, we can keep our fees inexpensive, enjoy the corners, and instruct as our hearts dictate. So for those who feel that this bit of work is an issue:

"Would you pay $50 or $60 to avoid corner working, avoid the "all day" aspect, and get to run your warm up laps right before your timed laps? Would you pay $100 bucks? You are driving a Porsche, some people might not care about the difference in money. Time is valuable."

Unfortunately this flies in the face of what the club is all about. If you want to do that then run with SCCA and get your 3 laps done and be home by lunch.

Our club is run by the members and having people pay extra to just show up and run and then leave does not run the event, nor would it cover the cost to hire folks to run the event. Not a very good idea IMHO nor do I think anyone in the club administration wold go for such an idea.

[Kim Crosser]

It would be nice to have an option in this poll for "leaving things as they are," since that would be my choice.

Please read some of the earlier posts.  Whether or not to have paid workers is a completely different issue.  This thread is specifically to find what the reaction would be IF we chose to use paid corner workers and consequently increased the AX fees by $10.  Having an option for "Leave it alone" would not give us the results we need.

Regarding paying workers versus volunteering, keep in mind that most volunteers work for only 1 to 2 hours during the day.  Even those of us who work the entire event have break times, driving times, etc.  Paid corner workers would be working nearly continuously for up to 8-1/2 hours.  That is a full-time job, not just taking the place of a volunteer for their "shift".  Think of each paid corner worker as taking the place of at least 6 "volunteers" (at least 2/3 of whom say they would gladly pay someone else to work corners).

Finally, please don't shoot the messenger.  I personally feel that corner working is good experience and that you can learn a lot on the corners if you go into it with the right attitude.  Many times last year I ran the corner working, instructed, and worked corners myself due to a shortage of "volunteers".  As the corner working chair (who has to chase down everyone to get people out to corners and keep the track going), paid workers could make my life a lot easier, but I am perfectly happy to continue to do this with volunteers.

[Denise Dente]

Paid corner workers is not exactly new.

At Time Trails we have paid corners.... AND maybe I missed it but I don't recall seeing people releaving paid corner worker at a Time Trial because they love to work corners. I for one appreciate Kim's effort and courage to try something new.

If you like to work corners then be my guest... your hard work is much appreciated. I for one have a full day of driving, instructing and helping manage the students/instructors. It's also nice if I have a few minutes to enjoy time with my husband and friends. I'm sure most/all of us have plenty of responsibilities and obligations in our daily lives. The prospect of having more time for social interaction and relaxation is highly attractive.

As a board member and CDI I feel it's important to follow the wishes of our drivers & instructors. So far, it seems that our memebership would like us to try this system.

So in the spirit of team work, I will do everything possible to help Kim... train people, managment them, etc.

I would challenge everyone in favor of paid corner workers to help Kim in his efforts so we give this the best chance of success.

All those in favor for supporting Kim say I.... or just vote!

Like the rappers say....Don't cry about it....Be about it!

Denise

[rss996]

Lets try it! I would think for 10 more its worth a try....We can always go back!