Paid Corner Workers (groan - not again) Survey

[Kim Crosser]

At the March 26th AX (assuming it stops raining by then ) we will poll the attendees as to using paid corner workers. Based on the responses and other factors (e.g., legal, liabilities, agreements with an organization to provide the workers, etc.), the Board will then decide whether to try paid corner workers at the following event(s).

At the March 26th event, we will carry on with volunteer corner workers, but will use the new run group orders, so we can see how that works as well. (We had planned on using them at the February 12th event, but were rained out.)

We are making every attempt to listen to all the Club members and be as responsive as possible. If a sizeable majority of the AX attendees want paid workers (as it appears so far) and it is feasible economically and from a liability standpoint, then we will likely try paid workers soon.

[jgunn]

Paid corner workers!! Yahoo!! I love it

$10 is nothing to have that time back to work on cars, instruct, tune cars, etc.

James

[kary]

Paid corner workers!! Yahoo!! I love it

$10 is nothing to have that time back to work on cars, instruct, tune cars, etc.

James

My thoughts exactly!!

[bryanearll]

comments withdrawn...

Bryan

[Kim Crosser]

This survey, it's structure, and the lack of "just say, 'no'" response seems to be a group leader directed mandate, so why dress it up as diplomacy? Why bother holding a survey if the intent is to change the structure? As for the $10 bucks, who cares? The real point of the matter is about time, not money. (like anyone cares about $10 bucks)

Bryan - I suggest you read through the entire thread before you make comments like the above.

This thread exists SOLELY because a majority of forum participants (and Club members with whom I have spoken) WANT to have paid corner workers. We are trying to be responsive to the wishes of the Club members, and NOT attempting to implement a "mandate" from some "group leader".

There was already one survey (a couple of months ago) which indicated that a majority of Club members wanted paid corner workers. (See previous threads "Corner Working Process Improvements" [near bottom of page 2 of the Forum], "Corner Working Poll for the New Year" [page 3], and "Corner Working Challenge" [page 3] - the thread that started it all.)

This current survey was solely intended to get a sense of the reaction of AX participants IF we went that route and had to increase the registration fees by $10 to cover the costs. It is just one more input the Board will use to ultimately make the decision whether or not to go to paid corner workers at AX events.

Regarding your suggestions for short volunteer instruction events - the Club already holds these. They are the Tech Sessions, and some of the topics you list have already been done at the Tech Sessions. Tech Sessions are usually held the 3rd Wednesday of each month (at dealers, tire shops, suspension shops, etc.). Jim Abbott, Bob McLaughlin, and Joe Hofmann run the Tech Sessions - you can post suggestions for future Tech Sessions to them by clicking on any of their names on the Contacts page of the PCA-SDR site (or just e-mail to techsessions@pcasdr.org). I am certain that they would welcome ideas for future sessions, and some of these sound quite interesting.

[ttweed]

Or wasn't that recent 'makeover' by Tom Tweed worth talking about?

Maybe you mean Mike Gagen, not me? My "makeover" on my '73 has been proceeding slowly and incrementally for the last 3 years, while Mike will be doing more to his '69 in two months than I have done in that whole time to mine!

I agree with Kim, a lot of the subjects you list are and have been tech session material.

TT

[Denise Dente]

Bryan,

I'm glad you've decided to start autocrossing. This subject has been a regular topic on the forum and at events for years.

When I was new I too enjoyed corner worker and watching the cars (which is still something you can do). As I got more experienced, I found that riding with seasoned drivers and listening to what they had to say was more valuable that spending 1 1/2 hours on one corner. From there tuning the car became important as my driving improved.

Now as CDI I have a responsibility to my instructors to keep them happy (and willing to instruct). These are typically seasoned drivers who want to share their knowledge but also want to tune their cars and have a little time to enjoy the event.

So asking instructors to ride with a student AND work corners with a students requires a lot of time during their day. That makes roughtly 3 hours of corner working. In some cases instructors take 2 students.

I'm thrilled your coming out and autocrossing. I think if you read through the thread and speak with other drivers it might shed some light on the on-going topic.

See ya at the next event.

Denise

[bryanearll]

Sorry, I wasn't trying to provoke. It doesn't matter to me about the $10 bucks, as I said. What I was really trying to say was from a newbie point of view. So take it at that, for whatever its worth.

...and a long stressful days spilled over into my comments. Stuff happens.

Denise, Kim you guys do a lot of work to pull this together and I'm thankful for that.
b

[paul-silver]

There was already one survey (a couple of months ago) which indicated that a majority of Club members wanted paid corner workers. [...]

This current survey was solely intended to get a sense of the reaction of AX participants IF we went that route and had to increase the registration fees by $10 to cover the costs. It is just one more input the Board will use to ultimately make the decision whether or not to go to paid corner workers at AX events.

Actually, Kim, the surveys being done here don't reflect the majority of the club members or even of the autorossers. They reflect the majority of the forum participants only.

The only way to gauge the will of the majority of the autocrossers would be to poll them directly at the next event. Make it part of the registration or tech process, so you get 100% participation in the poll.

But please make sure one of the options in that survey is to keep things as they are now! Because the majority of the autocrossers have not yet voiced their opinion on that part of the equation.

Paul

[Kim Crosser]

As noted above, we will be polling the participants at the next AX.

Your comment about making it part of the registration and/or tech is a good one. I (and Gary) had been thinking more of a show of hands, but a simple sign in sheet at Tech and the trailer makes more sense. Thanks.

[Black Dog]

Another club that I AX with assigns instructors to ride with newbies but does not make them corner work together. Instead, when the newcomers show up for their time to work, they are paired with experienced corner workers from their run group. This is done informally, yet seems to work well. Does PCA have a rule requiring instructors to work with their students, or is this something we could do?

-John Ross

[rss996]

Maybe we could make it so the newbies could go out and stand with a paid worker to get some experience etc...not sure about liability for that though...

Just a thought!

[David Ray]

You really get spoiled at TT and DE events - why not for 10 bones?

[Kim Crosser]

We (I) have assigned some students to go out with other experienced workers at various events, but generally there aren't enough experienced "students" in the Blue/Green run groups, since we seem to have quite a few new students each time.

We tend to have big tracks and need a lot of workers (10-12 at West lot events), so it is a real challenge to get 18-24 people in the groups to allow doubling up.

Also, we may be a bit persnickety about this, but part of this is our reluctance to allow people to corner work until they have done so with one of our experienced staff (i.e., instructors), even if they have worked at SCCA or other venues.

Having seen "professionals" and also seen some not-so-safe actions by some of our own corner workers, I am going to resist anything that weakens the safety aspect of corner working. This means that if we are using volunteer students as corner workers, we will continue to require them to go out with experienced people who fully appreciate what can happen out there and know what to do.

If we go with paid workers, I would recommend that instructors or other experienced corner workers take the newbies with them out to a couple of corners and do some instructing. I would NOT want them wandering out to corners and watching (or helping) paid workers without adult supervision, unless they have prior experience corner working and fully understand the hazards and responsibilities.

Der Corner Working Fuhrer

[Kim Crosser]

Just posting so this pops to near the top of the current posts - so people who haven't voted will get a chance to vote.