Corner Worker Survey Questions

[Kim Crosser]

We had a good suggestion to have the paid corner worker survey at Tech and Registration on March 26th. I would like to make sure that we ask the RIGHT questions, so we don't have to go through this again (please!).

I have come up with the following. If you would like to suggest additional or alternate questions, please let me know.


Question 1 -

If cost were no issue, would you prefer to have volunteer (i.e., drivers as per our current system) or paid corner workers at Autocrosses?

a. Strongly prefer volunteers (keep as is)
b. Prefer volunteers
c. No opinion
d. Prefer paid workers
e. Strongly prefer paid workers


Question 2 -

If the use of paid corner workers caused Autocross registration fees to be increased by $10-$11 per event, what is your preference?

a. Strongly prefer volunteers (keep as is)
b. Prefer volunteers
c. No opinion
d. Prefer paid workers
e. Strongly prefer paid workers


Question 3 -

If we elect to use paid corner workers, and Autocross registration fees increased by $10-$11 per event, would this affect your attendance at these events?

a. Would not attend any events
b. Would attend fewer events
c. Would not affect my attendance


Question 4 (AX Instructors only) -

Does corner working affect your frequency of instructing at Autocrosses?

a. Yes. I do not instruct at AX events because of student corner working.
b. Yes. I sometimes do not instruct because of student corner working.
c. No, but I don't like the extra burden of corner working.
d. No, I am ok with working corners with students.
e. No, I feel corner working with students is a positive part of AX instructing.


Question 5 (AX Instructors only) -

Please only answer if you are a qualified AX instructor and you have declined to instruct at one or more AX's in the past year.

If you did not have to do corner working, would you instruct more frequently?

a. Yes, at all/most events.
b. Yes, I would instruct more often.
c. No, that doesn't influence my choice of when to instruct.
d. No, I am not interested in doing any more instructing.

[David J Marguglio]

And so everyone gets one vote...except for Danno who gets a 3/5ths vote?

[Dan Chambers]

Kim and Dave:

How about:

"If the use of paid corner workers decreases the total number of laps from 12 (current) to 10 or 9, would you still prefere paid corner workers?" (Late arrival of cornerworker crew, lunch breaks, etc. may cause loss of laps)

a. Yes, I'd pay extra to have less laps. (Paid Cornerworkers)
b. No, I'll volunteer to work, and for less cost I'll drive more laps. (keep as is)
c. I don't care either way. Just make sure Dan C. doesn't design the track.

And:

"With paid corner workers, and in order to get maximum laps, volunteers would still be needed to cornerwork while the paid crew took a lunch break (approx. one hour). Would you be willing to pay more, and still volunteer to cornerwork anyway?"

a. Pay and volunteer, yes. Totally worth it to hang with my buddies all day, except during lunch break.(Paid cornerworker system)
b. What?!? Pay AND volunteer? Come on....
c. Pay less, volunteer to cornerwork, and drive. (Current system)

Also, another thought. To cover the lunch break and allow more track time with paid cornerworkers, we could rigorously enforce the Black Flag rule. Anyone spinning and Black Flagged before lunch has to cornerwork during the lunch break.


Okay, so I'm a little tongue in cheek here. I just want folks to think about all the impacts of paid cornerworkers. I do, in all seriousness, think an adjustment to the current system - allowing the Instructors to cornerwork once, instead of twice - is a direction worth very serious consideration. I haven't seen it mentioned in detail for a while. So, I just want to remind everyone there are options out there to explore along with the paid cornerworker option.

I hope you'll all go to the meeting tonight (Mike D's off the hook. He's busy) and contribute constructively to the issue as it is on the agenda.

Hasta!

"Danno"

[Kim Crosser]

I would attend the meeting, if I weren't in Portland, Oregon.

Your points are well taken. I am hopeful that my new scheme for March 26th will minimize (maybe eliminate) any double corner working for instructors, and will make the whole thing (including instructing) go smoother.

I think it would be reasonable to add another question:


Question 6 -

If the use of paid corner workers meant that the number of laps available was reduced to from the usual 12 (or 11) to 10 laps, how would you feel about paid corner working?

a. Strongly oppose (keep current system)
b. Oppose (keep current system)
c. Neutral
d. Favor paid corner working
e. Strongly favor paid corner working

[Dan Chambers]

Thanks, Kim. That's a good way to phrase it.

Now, last night we talked about this at length at the Board meeting. I'm sorry so many of you who want paid cornerworkers couldn't make it. It was very constructive, and many good points were raised.

I'll point out that Steve Dente, one of the "founding fathers" of paid corner workers, enlightened me to the fact that, if we hire additional paid corner workers to cover lunch or breaks, we would not necessarily lose any laps, in fact possibly gain laps (Geez, I wish he would have told me that trick when I was A-X/DE Chair). So, there's another fact to factor in. It might cost another $180.00 to $200.00 bucks per event, but might be worth it.

Yet another GREAT idea, postulated by Gary Burch, would be to have the first cornerworker group of the day be the experienced drivers/corner workers (not Instructors) for the first 3 run groups, and have one or two experienced Drivers/Instructors (I'd volunteer) give a brief cornerworking seminar to the new cornerworkers during the first run group or two. So, imagine - AS AN EXAMPLE - the Orange run group cornerworks, the White run group heads out to drive, and one or two Instructors from Red run group join Kim and me in a 20-minute (or less) Cornerworking Seminar. Something like that would allow everyone to work 1 (one, uno, Un) cornerworking session for the entire day. (IMHO, with a little tweeking, this would really be great.) Gary, this is good stuff, man.

I'm hopeful we can please most of the people most of the time by re-arranging the current system, and looking into multiple possibilities.... including possibly paid cornerworkers.

Thanks to all who could make it last night. Regrets to those who had other commitments, you were missed. A big thanks to Kim Crosser, Gary Burch, Carl Scragg, and Micheal Harris for their dedication and hard work to this topic.

See you at the next event.

[Kim Crosser]

AS AN EXAMPLE - the Orange run group cornerworks, the White run group heads out to drive, and one or two Instructors from Red run group join Kim and me in a 20-minute (or less) Cornerworking Seminar.

Great minds think alike. If you check my new scheme for corner working/run group sequencing, the first corner working group is Orange - that was specifically to avoid sending out instructors or students in the first CW group.

We can certainly do the CW training session. Note that we typically seem to have around 20+ newbies per event (no prior CW experience), so that is a large seminar. However, I am a bit concerned about doing a seminar and then sending them out on the track without any further supervision.

With the new scheme and allocation of instructors, I am pretty confident that we will eliminate the double corner working - if an instructor goes out with a student, we should be able to exempt them from later working. Since the new scheme always puts the student group out on corners before the instructors, we will know which instructors already worked when their group comes up.

We can certainly try to get additional paid workers to allow for rotation - we would probably need at least 12 workers, so our costs would go up another couple of hundred $$.

[Denise Dente]

Yes, I'd gladly "donate"/pay $10.00-$11.00 for corner workers.

Yes, I would increase my attendance at Autocrosses.

Yes, I would instruct more if I didn't need to corner work

Frankly, most of these questions really don't apply to me but I wanted to cast my vote.

Let's not spin this in a negative light (i.e. lose laps) without data. Who knows we could get more laps. These all assumptions.

I looking forward to trying anything new.

Denise

[Dan Chambers]

Let's not spin this in a negative light (i.e. lose laps) without data. Who knows we could get more laps. These all assumptions.

Denise

Denise:

With all due respect:

In assessing the potential for lost laps due to paid corner workers I have refered to historically, I am basing my statements on 2-years of Autocross Chair responsibilities, including being responsible for a full year of QDE Chairing (2004). In every case, in 2004 QDE's, laps/ driving time was lost due to paid corner workers arriving late, arriving under-staffed, and taking lunch breaks that exceeded 1 hour. If you would like to see my notes from those dates, historical data is available in written form. Lost laps was not an assumption, it was a statement based on factual, documented experience.

It is unfortunate, especially for the drivers of 2004 QDE's, that I was not made aware of the nuances of managing paid corner workers from Steve Dente or other previous Driving Event Chairs until Wednesday night's meeting. After the meeting, Steve told me how, in fact, it is possible to have continuous driving and give paid corner workers breaks with the right number of paid corner workers. Had that experience and knowledge been shared in 2003-2004, we would have had more laps at QDE's in 2004.

So, I apologize if anyone thought lost laps was a concept based on assumption. It was not. (As a professional scientist, I would be in serious trouble if I assumed anything.) Imperical data is the only way I can afford to operate.

Finally, with the newly aquired knowledge imparted by Steve, I have a more-informed opinion about the possibility of paid cornerworkers, as indicated in my post above:

"I'm hopeful we can please most of the people most of the time by re-arranging the current system, and looking into multiple possibilities.... including possibly paid cornerworkers. "

Thanks for your vote, support, and hard work with this issue. Let's keep working together to find a solution that most driver's want.

[Denise Dente]

Dan,

I for one have had plenty of track time during the past years at the DE/TT so there was no reason to feel shorted. In fact, I think most people went through tons of tires and brakes.

I had so much fun at DE's/TT's that I wanted to save my tires for others. You and the team did a great job and really got me hooked. That might have something to do with me wanting paid corner workers. Just doing autocrosses for the first couple of years, I was never exposed to paid corner workers. Then I went to a DE. I got tons of laps and my feet did hurt from standing all day. I said to myself.... I wish we could do it this way all the time.

I agree with you that the hired corner workers were a challenge at times. There's a chance that those same issues could happen in this situation too. Nothing is perfect. We'll try it and see how it goes. I'm realistic (sort of)... we might have some bumps along the way but we might find out it's worth it. OR maybe not...

[jgunn]

Question 1 -

If cost were no issue, would you prefer to have volunteer (i.e., drivers as per our current system) or paid corner workers at Autocrosses?


e. Strongly prefer paid workers


Question 2 -

If the use of paid corner workers caused Autocross registration fees to be increased by $10-$11 per event, what is your preference?


e. Strongly prefer paid workers


Question 3 -

If we elect to use paid corner workers, and Autocross registration fees increased by $10-$11 per event, would this affect your attendance at these events?

c. Would not affect my attendance


Question 4 (AX Instructors only) -

Does corner working affect your frequency of instructing at Autocrosses?

b. Yes. I sometimes do not instruct because of student corner working.


Question 5 (AX Instructors only) -

Please only answer if you are a qualified AX instructor and you have declined to instruct at one or more AX's in the past year.

If you did not have to do corner working, would you instruct more frequently?

a. Yes, at all/most events.



I think we will get more runs since we can run through lunch and run until dark (stadium enforced curfew of 6pm in Daylight savings periods). After timed runs, we could even have some more runs if time permits -- "Fun Runs" right up until 6 with the people staying paying $2 per run to cover more of the worker costs

[paul-silver]

Question 1 -

If cost were no issue, would you prefer to have volunteer (i.e., drivers as per our current system) or paid corner workers at Autocrosses?

e. Strongly prefer paid workers
---note the caveat in the question: cost is not issue. I assume
that nothing else is an issue, either.


Question 2 -

If the use of paid corner workers caused Autocross registration fees to be increased by $10-$11 per event, what is your preference?

a. Strongly prefer volunteers (keep as is)
---I'm not a cheapskate, but this is a volunteer club, afterall.
And, despite the fact that I do own a Porsche, I don't have
a money tree in my back yard.

Question 3 -

If we elect to use paid corner workers, and Autocross registration fees increased by $10-$11 per event, would this affect your attendance at these events?

c. Would not affect my attendance
--- I like the choices in the other survey -- I would attend
and grumble. I love to autocross and won't quit. But
I also won't like the extra fee which I feel is not necessary.

Question 6 -

If the use of paid corner workers meant that the number of laps available was reduced to from the usual 12 (or 11) to 10 laps, how would you feel about paid corner working?

a. Strongly oppose (keep current system)
--- The idea of paying more for less may appeal to some, but not to me.

Then James wrote:
I think we will get more runs since we can run through lunch and run until dark (stadium enforced curfew of 6pm in Daylight savings periods). After timed runs, we could even have some more runs if time permits -- "Fun Runs" right up until 6 with the people staying paying $2 per run to cover more of the worker costs

I reply:
We can't run through lunch if the corner workers are all taking their lunch break.

Second, one idea which has been floated is that if there is time for "fun runs" after the timed runs are over, they could be run for a couple bucks a lap and the money would go into the charity fund. I like that idea alot better than giving it to paid corner workers.

Paul

[Bob Gagnon]

Why do the corner workers all have to go to lunch at the same time?

Can't they be staggered over a couple of hours, perhaps replaced with cornerworkers from the club who volunteer to do the lunch break in exchange for a discount on their autocross fee?

Does it have to be an all or nothing system with either all paid or all volunteer cornerworkers?

[Kim Crosser]

If there are 10 corner workers, and you want them all to get a 45-minute lunch break, then if they go sequentially, it will require 9 hours, and an 11th worker (more $$) to cover for one that is off the track. If we have 12 workers, so that 2 can be off-track at any time, (still more $$) then the rotating lunch break would still take 4.5 hours. With 13-14 workers (still more $$), 3-4 can be off-track, and the rotating break period would be down to 2.25 hours (which is probably acceptable, but this would likely drive the cost up from $10-11/event to $13-14/event.

My wife had a good suggestion to this problem last night:

For the lunch break, call for volunteers from the drivers. Each volunteer who works corners during the lunch break would receive a credit in the amount of the corner worker "surcharge" (assuming we go with a $10-11/event registration fee increase to cover paid workers).

This would solve a couple of issues - we wouldn't have a shutdown over lunch, the workers would have a break, and those who would prefer to work corners and/or not pay the increased fee would have a chance to do both.

I will post a poll on this one, so don't bother to reply in this thread!

[MikeD]

Why not just take their lunch out to them on the track? The truck makes a round every hour or so taking food and drink out and bringing garbage and complaints back.

Problem solved. Next issue?

[paul-silver]

Kim --

I would not add that option to the poll, especially without talking to the board first.

Essentially, that turns volunteer club members into paid corner workers. The board has been pretty adamant that we are a volunteer club, and members are not paid for their time at club events.

Paul