Fun Track Car

[Mike]

What it comes down to is personal taste. There is no 'right' answer.

Great post Jad. That about covers it, so pardon me if I expand on on some of your points.

If you are in a learning curve it is difficult to know what class or what organization you may want to race with 3 years from now. It helps having a car that is legal in all of them.

Buy all the Porsche you can. It is cheaper than doing it yourself.
Think safety and consider well prepped track cars, suspensions, brake systems, full cages, fire systems, race seats. Buying a used race car is very risky, from build quality, or off track damage to just being simply worn out. If you find a west coast PCA Club racer you can do a little detective work and minimize your risk. Consider too how peaked is the drive train, for example the factory cup cars are awesome but may require frequent expensive servicing. A car with recent proven lap times is good.

I am totally 911 biased. The 944 spec idea is valid, though if you are a quick study you may soon be searching for more car. Hats off to the guys that enjoy this competition saving $$ and concentrating more importantly on driver improvement.
Jad's turbo 944 is nice I used to have an 86. I also like Mike Van Zandt's 944 turbo track car.
I just had to have a little more Porsche 911.

With minimal experience your skills could develop into something like Jack Miller’s track 964 club race/TT car. Race it and keep it streetble with 3.6 power. What are those going for? I might talk myself into it.

For the money the fastest car in town might be Chris Burns POC race car which runs 1.23s at Big Willow, maybe 65K? A lot of car for anyone!

My experience…I bought an AM class street legal 911 a couple of years ago and it was all the 911 I wanted for 3 years. But now I was ready for a little more. Although after 3 years no specific race class interested me.

Having a competitive class specific car to race with more than one organization is difficult because rarely are class specifics the same in the various race organizations. I do enjoy racing with various race organizations and in these races with multiple classes you can normally find a car/driver of similar performance to race. Bottom line I do not race exclusively with PCA so I choose to build a 911 to my own specs.

End of last season I began to consider higher performance track/street legal options. Street legal because imho it just seems more useful if on occasion I can cruise it locally instead of having to tow it to the track to drive it. I could have sold my AM class 911 and bought a more developed 911. But chances are whatever I bought would have needed something, and my field was narrow as I preferred a street legal pre 75 911.

I enjoy early 911s and desired a dual purpose street/track car built to high performance specs. The option that best suited me was to have Jae at Mirage International develop my street legal AM 911 into a radical RSR+.

An RSR+ should suit me well at SDR PCA AR class time trails, Club races with PCA, Alfa Club, TCRA, and an occasional DE. Perhaps a couple PCA or R Gruppe mountain tours too.

Deciding what you want can be the toughest part.

[JHPGT3]

Mikey D., since you mentioned my GT3, may I offer a few thoughts about the GT3 and MY experience with it.
#1) I have had a couple of warranty claims and everything has always been taken care of cheerfully by the dealer. I have found, however, that the right dealer and the right service person are mandatory. I could have had my warranty claims refused by another dealership. Bottom line is I have found I can track the car on occasion and it will not affect my warranty.
#2) IMO, this is the best combination street/track car ever built by Porsche. If one wants the simplicity and cost savings of a single car for both street and track, this has got to be it. Very comfortable on the street and with only a roll bar, better seats and a FE, you can be very competitive and safe on the track. I am not the greatest driver, but the GT3 is making me look good (which I need). After the last TT at The Streets, some of us went over to the big track for a Monday event with Todd Serota. One of those was Jack Miller, who I asked to drive around the track with me as passenger, watching. I also told jack NOT to go flat out, but just to do a nice, smooth effortless lap, whcih he proceeded to do (1:30). He said the car could go a lot faster!! Hey, for a street car that weighs over 3200 lbs. with the AC on and a 200 lb. passenger (with all the gear on), this is a terrificly fast car in the right hands. I believe it can do 1:28 at Big Willow. And you can drive the car to and from the track, take it to the supermarket, and take wifey out to dinner.
I have an '03 996 Twin Turbo sitting in the garage. It was purchased before the GT3. The Turbo has 3800 miles on it. The GT3 has 6500. That pretty much tells the story of which car I prefer. In fact, although John Simone is currently building me a track car like Bob Ehrman's, I've decided I may never sell the GT3. It's just too great a car! I love looking at it in the garage. I love driving it up the street. And, I'll never stop taking it to the track, even after the new track car is built because I know it will always be ready to go, even if the track car is having problems! The GT3 can be counted on. It's been super reliable. I haven't had any real issues worth mentioning.
#3) Cost is always a factor. The real cost of ownership is the cost of capital tied up in the car plus depreciation plus operating costs. Typically, the 2nd and 3rd of these three items is the real killer, but in the case of the GT3, I believe I can sell the car now, after a year of ownership and 6500 miles, for very close to what I paid. That's really remarkable. The cars are holding their value, probably due to their limited production. It would be a stretch to say this about any other street or track car one might be considering. As far as operating costs, all Ive experienced are oil changes and brake pads. And this motor sounds like it will run forever. If it doesn't, I believe my warranty will take care of it. The bottom line here is that the net cost of ownership of a GT3, depending on how one values one's capital, is very, very cheap!!(but, try explaining that to wifey)

In summary, here's a car that can do double duty on the street and track (eliminating the storage problem of a "track only" car), it's very competitive, easy to drive (the latest in suspension, power steering etc.), very reliable, under warranty (I know this is debatable, but I have to go with my personal experience) and it's cheap.
That's my $ .02.

[Tim Comeau]

Well,...........just 2 points from me.
First, I agree with Jad that the best all around bang for the buck car is the Porsche 944 turbo. They can be made very quick for little money. Chip, turbo and exhaust will take you right up to 300 hp.
Second, the 944-spec cars are the only Porsche race cars right now where you can get an equal return on investment, making them a safe choice, especially for a new driver.
If you want to have fun and LEARN how to drive, instead of just throwing money at a car to go fast, try a 944-spec car for a while. You can always sell it and get something more powerful. Notice I didn't say quicker? I said more powerful.

You can either BE fast, or BUY fast..........

[MikeD]

With minimal experience your skills could develop into something like Jack Miller’s track 964 club race/TT car. Race it and keep it streetble with 3.6 power. What are those going for? I might talk myself into it.

Chris O' is asking $48K for his '95 993. Fast car, well taken care of and very well prepped by TRG.

You can either BE fast, or BUY fast..........

Just so you know, these are NOT mutually exclusive. It is possible to be AND buy fast.

[Dan Chambers]

You can either BE fast, or BUY fast..........

What a perfect description of a 944 .

It is interesting to note how many really good drivers at the top of their class in the PCA-SDR have, in years past, owned a 944N/A. Look at the classes:

AM
AR
G** (duh)
JS
KS
M**
N

Many of these guys were my Instructors when I was first in the club. Just about every Instructor who got into my car used to say "I had one of these cars for a couple of years. Great car, and a really good choice for learning how to performance-drive."

And, more than one have said " I think about getting another one to track. They're really fun, and a great value." Just ask:

John Kinkaid (also currently owns a Carerra, but tracks the 944N/A)
Jeff Grow (sold his 993 and built a 944-Spec)
Chris Benbow (owns a Boxter, built a 944-Spec)
Mark Foley (also owns a 944Turbo, but built and tracks a 944-Spec)

I'm sure there are more Drivers that I'm not including here.

So, I don't think you could go wrong with a solid 944; be it Spec, N/A, or Turbo.


Of course, I am biased....

[Curt]

You can either BE fast, or BUY fast..........

Just so you know, these are NOT mutually exclusive. It is possible to be AND buy fast.

Yeah, and you can buy fast and be not as fast as you should be.

[Kim Crosser]

I liked the t-shirt message I saw at several AX's:

"I would rather drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow."

But I agree - I would rather drive a fast car fast than either of the other choices.

[Tim Comeau]

Exactly, Curt.
The driver can first BE fast, then spend money (BUY) to make the car faster.
Or the driver can spend lots of money on the car first and make it go like stink in a straight line, while getting humiliated in the turns!
I'm just saying there's a proper order to do things in the development of a driver's skill set. Otherwise, you go too fast too soon and really pay for it.
I'm still not the fastest driver out there............but I'm trying like hell!
Cheers!

Driving.....for the love of it!

[bryanearll]

Thanks for all of the thoughts from so many of you!

It's made me really think about "what it is I'm doing" and that's excellent and focused.

Tim, if the 944 Spec is out there at the end of the month perhaps I can get a feel for it then.

(I still like the pretty blue one in the classifieds.)

I think I'll go test drive a GT3 to get a limited sense of how that car feels, and maybe a Boxster too while I'm there. (though a sunburned dome is all I would get there)

Can I passenger at FOS on the bigger faster tracks (perhaps during warm up) to get a sense of what it's like before I'm 'all in' or do I need to wait for Willow Springs?
Bryan

[Tim Comeau]

Bryan,
You can enter your street Porsche, or any street car in the NASA HPDE groups on March 12th-13th at Fontana. You'll have an instructor with you. I believe Saturday's groups are already sold out, but maybe Sunday?
I'll be there both days.

[bobbrand]

For anyone looking for a fun track toy...
I heard that Clint Eagar's fully prepared carbon fiber/fiberglass RSR clone is for sale and will be on display at CFOS. Car is like brand new. Asking price is $65K, which is a tremendous deal. It makes something like 400 N/A HP in an 1800 lb car. You could win TTOD and the concours at the same time.

[Jad]

For anyone looking for a fun track toy...
I heard that Clint Eagar's fully prepared carbon fiber/fiberglass RSR clone is for sale and will be on display at CFOS. Car is like brand new. Asking price is $65K, which is a tremendous deal. It makes something like 400 N/A HP in an 1800 lb car. You could win TTOD and the concours at the same time.

you mean like Bill