PDS and teen drivers?

[jbrennen]

My daughter will turn 17 the day before the upcoming PDS. Without saying too much about her specifically, was hoping to get some comments about what a 17 year old might get out of the PDS...

Comparisons with the Tire Rack Street Survival program, if anybody either knows any teens that have done both, or has instructed at both, would be very helpful.

Thanks for any feedback.

- Jack

[LUCKY DAVE]

I can't speak to the Tire Rack program, but I have experience sending a teenagers through the PDS. Recognizing that teenagers drive too fast (that's just the way it is, folks) I figured it would be far safer for them if they knew how to drive too fast.
In one case I created a monster - daughter Kelsey loved AX at first lap, became a regular, ran DE's and made instructor at 18. She would still be running with us all the time if she wasn't so busy with her career.
In both my kid's case it made them far safer, more competent drivers. They shake their heads at the general public's lack of driving ability. Kinda like us eh?

[Ryan McClune]

I can't speak for my own children, but my father registered me for NNJR's version of the PDS (which they called the Car Control Clinic) when I was 18.

Between the Car Control Clinic and sliding the old Volvo around snowy parking lots to learn how the car spins/slides, I think I came out a more capable and knowledgeable driver at 18 than most of my peers.

[ttweed]

Having instructed at both the PDS and the Tire Rack SS school, I can say that there are some significant differences between them. There is no doubt in my mind that that our PDS is a more extensive and impressive experience, just in terms of the seat time involved over several days, but it is proportionally more expensive as well. There are some other key differences between the programs that I can think of as well:

The kids drive their own cars in the TRSS school, their daily drivers, including beaters, compacts, station wagons, etc. You don't usually have that at the PDS, unless the kid is lucky enough to own a Porsche at a young age. There is something to be said for exploring the limits of your actual daily driver rather than mom or dad's Porsche.

The TRSS program is more focused on safe street driving than the PDS, which has a performance driving thrust that is not present in the SS school. There is more of a "defensive driving" focus that doesn't exist in the PDS. When was the last time we had an 18-wheeler come down to the Q to demonstrate the limitations of your car's visibility to a trucker when traveling down the highway, changing lanes, etc.? (The answer is "never.") We don't talk about the challenges of distractions to the driver, be it the radio, iPods, phones for talking or texting, or just the simple cause of too many teens in the car getting jacked up on each other's energy, etc.

While I think we cover vehicle dynamics that pertain to street safety fairly well in the PDS, with some of our exercises being exactly the same (threshold braking, skid pad, slalom, etc.), we don't concentrate on trying to impress youngsters with their vulnerability on the road in the same way. Our program goes beyond the basic car control skills for safety's sake and gets into the basic aspects of performance driving, preparing people to go faster in non-street situations like AX and track driving. This is totally absent from the TRSS.

That said, since kids will be kids, as Dave pointed out, and may tend to push the limits at every opportunity, this might be considered a shortcoming of the TRSS. You can't just "scare them straight" by talking about how much jeopardy they are in while driving a 3,000 lb. hunk of metal down the road at 70+ mph, you have to give them an alternative to street racing. If I had a teenager, I would definitely choose the PDS over the TRSS and do the "scared straight" stuff privately, one-on-one. Then I would try to encourage them towards autocross as a pastime, in the hope that it would supplant their urge to test the limits on the street. When I think back to the days of my youth, when I was immortal and did some crazy stuff in cars and on motorcycles, I can't help but think that an outlet where I could drive like my hair was on fire in a safe environment would have helped me resist the temptation (and the peer pressure) to explore such activity on public roads. I know for sure that if I had attended something like the PDS when I was 16, I would not have ended up backwards in a ditch on Carroll Canyon Road in my dad's '67 911S because I didn't know what trailing throttle oversteer was all about.

That's my $0.02. YMMV, since kids are all different.
TT

[Old Guy]

You know the saying: hire a teenager while they still know everything. This infamous saying aside, most teenagers will admit to not knowing everything about driving - especially in the face of being shown how little they actually do know in the context of real driving exercises. Coached seat time matters. Personal story. We have three sons. Between the two oldest: three (3!) totaled cars (a Mazda 323, Honda Civic Si, and an SUV Vitara - with just 90 kilometers on the clock; four days after purchase) and one "over the curb after a corner smash into a wall." This SUV (a Trooper) would have been totaled but for cheap mano de obra overseas.

Lack of knowledge and experience, together leading to doing the wrong thing factored into every accident (three involved one-car control loss situations and the 4-day old SUV crash involved doing the wrong thing when faced with a red-light runner (panic braking; slowed down to get hit in the rear quarter - any of us would have instantly sized up the situation and accelerated to get thru the intersection).

For the youngest: the family lesson was learned. We sent him to the Bob Bondurant school, the summer before he started at UCLA (we were living in Bolivia, so didn't have car club options at that time). He credits his seat time there with saving him twice (so far): once on the freeways of LA when an on-ramp car cut him off (he was driving a Buick Century), and once driving up I-5 late at night (driving the family's BMW 328Ci) when he encountered thrown truck tire treads - both events involved taking evasive action during which he did NOT lose control of the car.

In closing I'll repeat my opinion based on family experience: coached seat time matters.

[KeithV]

Jack,

PM sent - please call me at your convenience.

I'll be happy to give you the benefit of my experience as parent and instructor at both our PDS and the TireRack Teen Survival school.

Cheers! Keith V.

[rrichardson]

Jack, my daughter completed the PDS at 17 after a few auto crosses. I can tell you that she went from a distracted driver to a very focused driver as a result. Overall the PDS was a very positive experience for her and she has continued to autocross to improve her skills for the least 1 1/2 years.

Rick

[mrondeau]

+1 for the PDS. I've instructed at both and they each have benefits. As an attendee in early 2007 and an instructor since late 2007 and CDI in 2009 & 2010, I feel that our PDS is still the best program out there to teach car dynamics, control and safety. If you look around the club and look at the kids, (young adults now), that grew up in the club, you'll see a lot of really good drivers with a history of safe driving and responsible actions.