PCASDR Autocross “Track Walk” vs “ Parade Laps” Poll

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Which do you prefer:

Track walk
25
86%
Parade laps
4
14%
 
Total votes : 29

Re: PCASDR Autocross “Track Walk” vs “ Parade Laps” Poll

Postby JayG on Wed Jun 15, 2016 2:58 pm

jenniferreinhardt wrote:
marcus981 wrote:
jenniferreinhardt wrote:One Person's role and thoughts as AX Chair, does not give him the sole right to decide to take away an established Club tradition. And, it sounds like impromptu feedback has been considered. If this aristocratic power is authorized to be wielded, then so be it. The People have lost. However, it is well noted that the Drivers are putting their thoughts on these AX posts these last few days in an effort to have all of the People's voices counted - not just one group, and not decided by one person.


That's a little melodramatic, and it doesn't give Mark much credit for the outstanding way he has handled his difficult role. You are certainly welcome to express opinions, but I think most AXers (not just the fraction that read the forum) would find your apparent outrage about the three topics recently raised (parade laps, test drives, track style) to be a little surprising. If you don't think Mark is doing a good job of exceeding the expectations of the vast majority of AX participants, you certainly have the right to raise those concerns with the board. I personally think he's done a great job of weighing all of the different input he receives (not just a few vocal forum members) in order to make his well-informed decisions, and he has also kept the board informed and sought their approval along the way. That's not the sign of someone wielding "aristocratic power."


All I've been trying to say all along is that AX Drivers want to have a say in decision making as proven on this forum in the last few days.

:surr:
As one last add on and then I will stop any further posts, I am sorry to the Members if I have been too intense and melodramatic :D . I feel so strongly about making sure that all Drivers are treated fairly in their wants, needs and in a fair competition. So, that is why I am very assertive and vocal on these matters. Let's go Racing! :rockon:


Kind of what I said on one of theses threads in the last day or 2, many if not most of the newer AX participants and I am guessing much of the general membership does not participate on this forum. Much of the activity is from the "old guard" that may often have different opinions, ideas and goals from the balance of the members on some subjects. Yes, they all want what is best for the club, just often there is a resistance to changing some things because " that's how we have always done it". It always gets my hackles up when I hear that kind of statement regardless of the organisation.

We have a great, maybe the best PCA region around and need to always look for ways to improve and not only add new members, but keep them involved.
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Re: PCASDR Autocross “Track Walk” vs “ Parade Laps” Poll

Postby Mike on Thu Jun 16, 2016 8:20 am

The Q parking surface is so terrible that a track walk could be called a FOD walk down.
FOD in Military terms is "foreign object damage" which is in the form of carpet nails, broken glass and anything left by tailgaters and others that use the lot.

Years ago one morning just to be social I drove down to the Q just to do the track walk with no intention of participating.
As I was walking I met for the first time Don Auten aka "Duck".
Long story short we shared our interest in Naval aviation and through meeting Duck I was reunited with my old friend and favorite F14 pilot Hawk.
I have the track walk to thank for that, it was the best track walk ever. :beerchug:

I love track walks, have walked Laguna Seca twice with instructors.
Learning new sight lines and reference points, checking how abrasive various surfaces are, getting a good sense of elevation and camber changes, very helpful. 8)
Michael_Gagen :D

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Re: PCASDR Autocross “Track Walk” vs “ Parade Laps” Poll

Postby Steve Grosekemper on Thu Jun 16, 2016 9:22 am

The question of track walk vs. Parade laps is an easy one to answer.
Just add the question to the next AX registration page and along with answering your class and such answer these.
What do you prefer:
-Track walk
-Parade lap
-Abbreviated combination of both.

Can also ask about the new hybrid track in the same way.
then we will know who at the AX prefers what.
Cant register without answering.
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Re: PCASDR Autocross “Track Walk” vs “ Parade Laps” Poll

Postby Anastasia525 on Thu Jun 16, 2016 9:35 am

ttweed wrote:
jbrennen wrote: This should be an instructor with a loud voice and the knowledge of how to talk to novices about what they should take away from the track walk.

I don't think I'm the only one thinking "Keith Verlaque" while reading this. :)


Hear Hear! Track walk with Keith was one of my favorite parts of Porsche Driving School in March.
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Re: PCASDR Autocross “Track Walk” vs “ Parade Laps” Poll

Postby JayG on Thu Jun 16, 2016 9:38 am

Steve Grosekemper wrote:The question of track walk vs. Parade laps is an easy one to answer.
Just add the question to the next AX registration page and along with answering your class and such answer these.
What do you prefer:
-Track walk
-Parade lap
-Abbreviated combination of both.

Can also ask about the new hybrid track in the same way.
then we will know who at the AX prefers what.
Cant register without answering.


+1 Yup
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Re: PCASDR Autocross “Track Walk” vs “ Parade Laps” Poll

Postby marcus981 on Thu Jun 16, 2016 11:40 am

I think the Motorsportreg poll is a fine idea, with the caveat being that it isn't a guarantee that the policy will change based on the poll results (unless Mark and/or the board state ahead of time that it will).

There are other factors that influence the current policy, one being morning event schedule limitations. To be more realistic, the poll would have to include a footnote that there may be trade-offs that go along with certain options (possibly fewer practice runs, or more volunteers needed for early morning setup, etc.), so people can factor that information into their preference selection.

Also, a poll isn't always going to be the best method to resolve differing club member opinions, even though it is a good method to learn about people's preferences. As an extreme example, if you put a poll on Motorsportreg asking if registrants want to drive 100mph at the next AX, sure most drivers might vote for it (so you know their preference), but there are other valid reasons that it's not a good policy idea, and the board along with the AX and safety chairs would reject that proposal for those reasons.

On another topic:
If Mark is OK with this idea, I would be fine with adding a Motorsport reg poll question about people's preferences regarding the AX course style.
For example:
Do you prefer:
  • A traditional fully coned AX course (cones lining both sides of the entire course, excluding slaloms)?
  • A fully open AX course ("SCCA style" or PCA-OCR style with minimal cones marking the entire course)?
  • A hybrid AX course (some open sections interspersed between fully coned traditional course segments, similar to the April, May, and June 2016 courses)?
  • I don't know what these are, or I have no preference at this time

Based on all of the solicited and unsolicited feedback that Mark, Andrew, and I have received so far, I think we know most people's preferences, but I'd still be interested to see the poll results since some people voiced concerns.
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Re: PCASDR Autocross “Track Walk” vs “ Parade Laps” Poll

Postby Steve Grosekemper on Thu Jun 16, 2016 1:11 pm

Marcus,
I never suggested that the poll would be law; it is just a fact gathering exercise.
But I think it is really the only true reflection of opinions.
There are just too many variables when the two parties know who the other one is...
Just like when I saw you at the shop, I refrained from giving you my input.

Many people wouldn't give criticism in fear of being volunteered, or making chairs feel their efforts were not appreciated.
Some might also vote with the masses.

Get the information and then make a decision based upon the findings.

That's all I am saying.
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Re: PCASDR Autocross “Track Walk” vs “ Parade Laps” Poll

Postby marcus981 on Thu Jun 16, 2016 1:22 pm

Steve,

Thanks, and I totally agree with all of your statements.

I just wanted to clarify it for others, so they don't expect an automatic policy change based on the poll. I figured you already understood that, but I'm not sure if everyone else did.
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Re: PCASDR Autocross “Track Walk” vs “ Parade Laps” Poll

Postby Steve Grosekemper on Thu Jun 16, 2016 1:24 pm

You know me, I love data!! :burnout:
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Re: PCASDR Autocross “Track Walk” vs “ Parade Laps” Poll

Postby mrondeau on Thu Jun 16, 2016 4:43 pm

Steve Grosekemper wrote:You know me, I love data!! :burnout:

:roll:
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Re: PCASDR Autocross “Track Walk” vs “ Parade Laps” Poll

Postby LUCKY DAVE on Thu Jun 16, 2016 5:01 pm

EricMarc-Aurele wrote:I benefited quite a lot from the track walk at PDS. More time gave the instructor the chance to explain each corner in depth. Throughout the whole day I was trying to put into practice all the nuances and gas points Mr. Duncan pointed out..........

FYI the CDi's have no plans to eliminate the track walk at the PDS.
Even though all the participants are green as grass first timers, there are only ~48 of them so the schedule is not as tight as a regular AX. Because of this we have more options to do what we want to do instead of just what we have time for - shutting down for lunch time is a good example.
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Re: PCASDR Autocross “Track Walk” vs “ Parade Laps” Poll

Postby Mike on Fri Jun 17, 2016 9:16 am

Martin, Lewis does not take track walks anymore.
Not all of us here have reached that level of experiance. :wink: :wink:

HAMILTON: WALKING THE TRACK MAKES ZERO DIFFERENCE
http://www.grandprix247.com/2016/06/17/ ... ifference/
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Re: PCASDR Autocross “Track Walk” vs “ Parade Laps” Poll

Postby lrayner on Fri Jun 17, 2016 6:03 pm

Gee, I don't check the forum for a few days and WWIII breaks out. There are volunteers and there are participants. The way it typically works in organizations like ours is that, ultimately, the volunteers get to make the decisions. Jump up and down all you like, but if you don't like the decision, step on up and volunteer. Believe me, it is pretty easy to get a spot. And this is not meant to criticize those who choose just to participate or those who have stepped up numerous times in the past, but rather to acknowledge that those who are doing it right now are the ones charged with making the decisions.

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Re: PCASDR Autocross “Track Walk” vs “ Parade Laps” Poll

Postby martinreinhardt on Fri Jun 17, 2016 9:06 pm

lrayner wrote:... And this is not meant to criticize those who choose just to participate or those who have stepped up numerous times in the past, but rather to acknowledge that those who are doing it right now are the ones charged with making the decisions.


Yes, as long as the chairs follow the club rules with the Board's approval.
Last edited by martinreinhardt on Fri Jun 17, 2016 9:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: PCASDR Autocross “Track Walk” vs “ Parade Laps” Poll

Postby LUCKY DAVE on Fri Jun 17, 2016 9:24 pm

A reasonable, measured approach is to wait and see what the motorsport.reg poll results might say before asking the AX chair to make any changes. While we have some very strong opinions being expressed on this forum, they are all from the same few people that post here. We are not hearing from the majority of AX competitors, just the 25~30 of us that use this forum (and we all know each other!).
Remember, there are 2600+ members of SDR, it's more than just us track bums :beerchug:
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