mrondeau wrote: It's the closest that a modern(ish) GT car gets to the visceral driving experience that you can get with an early 911. Regardless of how well the "nannies" are calibrated, they're still there.
What I'm saying is that they're not there if you turn them off. If you want "visceral," you can have it in the new GT cars, just turn PSM off. You want manual instead of PDK, you can have it. All the original Porsche 911 DNA is still present in the new GT cars, except the snap trailing-throttle oversteer, perhaps. The 996 GT3 already has such a much more sophisticated suspension than an early 911, plus better aero, that they can hardly be compared, IMHO. The new 991.2 GT3 or 911R w/ PSM off and manual transmission would be just like a 996 GT3 with 120 more horsepower as far as I can tell, except that it would cost 3-6 times as much to buy. Until (or if) I ever get a chance to drive one I'll never know for sure, but that's my impression from what I've heard second hand. I'm not sure how anyone can deny that they are a "true driver's car" without trying them out. Even the rear-wheel steering (which cannot be easily disabled) is just a subtle device to simulate a shortened wheelbase and make the handling more similar to the 996 GT3 in cornering, while making it more stable on the straights at high speeds. Seems like a win-win to me.
I, for one, have no desire to get in a GT car with an unproven driver and allow them to turn the nannies off.
That would be a prudent action. Basic self-preservation.
This speaks back to the heart of this thread: Can you learn to drive at the cars limits in one of these cars?
I agree it would not be the best, the most efficient, or the most productive way to learn basic car control skills, and quite a bit more dangerous. It could be done, actually, but it would take a very long time, over a period of years (with the amount of seat time an average person would get annually), building up to the limits slowly using the standard process we have (AX, then DE/TT}, learning the basics with nannies on, gleaning from the PSM intervention and good coaching where you are making mistakes, and then repeating the entire process with the nannies disabled, starting over at the beginning again in a lower speed, controlled environment like AX. It certainly wouldn't be the fastest way to develop good car control skills by any means, and far from the cheapest or safest. Not many people would have the dedication or patience to do that correctly, I imagine, so shortcuts would be taken, in all likelihood, with sub-optimal results.
After 17 years in early 911s, and having driven a wide range of other sports cars, including a 450 HP, 2400 lb. mid-engine car with no electronic aids of any sort (even ABS) for a few years, I felt perfectly comfortable almost immediately in the 991 GT3. It is actually a more benign and neutral car to drive than a torsion bar/trailing arm 911, even with the PSM off (except for the fact that you have enough torque to spin the rear wheels at will). It is far more difficult to drive at the limit, though, just because the limits are so damn high, and by the time you are approaching them, you are going very fast with little room for errors in judgment or incorrect reactions. It is not a car for a novice to even experiment with turning the nannies off in, especially on a big track, and the PSM is not magic--the nannies alone are insufficient to save someone from monumental stupidity in every case, so normal prudence and caution are necessary, as always. There is no denying, though, that they are extremely capable, exciting, and satisfying cars to drive at speed, given adequate skill levels, and are still 911s at heart.
OK, back to the "slow car fast" programming....
TT