Slow Car Fast

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Re: Slow Car Fast

Postby ttweed on Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:58 am

Mike wrote: TT having you instruct Yvonne, Gloria and Sheila was awesome, thank you very very much!

It was my pleasure! Women can be much more receptive to instruction since their ego doesn't seems to get in the way like some men. :D
I saw this pic on Facebook this morning of Gloria and Sheila at the Thermal Club for an R Gruppe track day recently.
Image

She was very nervous on Friday and feeling very confident by Sunday. 8) 8) 8)
She learned some, retained some and most importantly kinda understands my driving style.
Most importantly, she maybe understood better why you spend so much of the family fortune on the hobby? :lol:

Although Sunday afternoon on my instructor bonus laps after her PDS school she scorned me that I was driving too fast on the AX track. :roflmao:

Women can also be less competitive than their testosterone-driven counterparts. :burnout:
Betcha can't do this with your nannies on. :wink:
https://youtu.be/WSoc6ch8Fss

You're right. The nannies would have cut that tank-slapper off after the first slide. I noticed Chad Plavan took the video from behind that car--I remember when he used to run with us, and we bought all our race gas at their place down the road from the stadium before it became Cosby Oil.
:rockon:
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Re: Slow Car Fast

Postby cag4 on Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:42 pm

It just occurs to me that we have a tool that addresses this issue:

Image167EB69E-5F11-4A06-8F85-12341EFF35C8 by cagillespie, on Flickr

While TTOD is great (and something I suspect we all aspire to), BRI is a decent way to look at the quality of the driving itself... taking the cars and their respective nannies out of the equation.

Something to think about...
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Re: Slow Car Fast

Postby GT3 on Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:58 pm

cag4 wrote:It just occurs to me that we have a tool that addresses this issue:

Image167EB69E-5F11-4A06-8F85-12341EFF35C8 by cagillespie, on Flickr

While TTOD is great (and something I suspect we all aspire to), BRI is a decent way to look at the quality of the driving itself... taking the cars and their respective nannies out of the equation.

Something to think about...


My initial thought was a GT car never will have a chance of getting anywhere near the top 10 on BRI, we would have to beat everyone by 6+ seconds and we know that is not possible.

People like Tom T is not even on this list which we know is a very capable driver who has received TTOD multiple times but never seen the top 10 I'm pretty sure.

But... As I look at the people above me on this list I see a lot of very capable drivers, most of which are probably a better driver then me simple because they have way more seat time than myself, so maybe there is some merit to the BRI system.

All packed up and ready to go to CVR!
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Re: Slow Car Fast

Postby mrondeau on Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:00 am

GT3 wrote:But... As I look at the people above me on this list I see a lot of very capable drivers, most of which are probably a better driver then me simple because they have way more seat time than myself, so maybe there is some merit to the BRI system.
:banghead:

The BRI in CC16 is higher than it should be IMHO. It should be about half the increase it currently is. The BRI in CC15 is in line with all of the other classes. The BRI is based on a cars potential, not the drivers. Every track is different. Some cars have an advantage at certain tracks and a disadvantage at others. If you are driving at or near your cars potential, you'll do well in the BRI.

If the BRI for 16 was adjusted as I stated, based on a CC16 cars realistic potential, Rick Levenson would have been 5th in BRI, Jae Lee would have been 21st and you would have improved to 24th. Still room for improvement.

BTW, seat time and experience are crucial to becoming a good driver, but they need to go hand in hand with practicing good driving techniques, understanding the car's abilities and having the "feel, technique and finesse" to master the car. There is no "simple".
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Re: Slow Car Fast

Postby Jad on Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:28 am

I think the BRI for 16 is a bit high for the cars running in it, but the reason it is that way is 16 is an unlimited class. Just the car running in it are not 'optimized' making the adjusted time hard to match. You can 'estimate' what a typical step up from 15 would be and if your car is just a bit above 15, adjust accordingly. A gutted, 2000 lbs, twin turbo GT3 would still be a cc16 car.
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Re: Slow Car Fast

Postby mrondeau on Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:09 pm

Perhaps it’s time for a CC17 class. I’d like to see some equity. Considering that a stock GT3 RS with Hoosiers is in 16 already puts them at a disadvantage and we are seeing a lot more of them now.
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Re: Slow Car Fast

Postby ttweed on Mon Mar 26, 2018 3:35 pm

mrondeau wrote: The BRI is based on a cars potential, not the drivers.

As Jad said, the BRI is based on the potential of the fastest car in the class, and CC16 is unlimited. The other case of a really oversize index is SS09. It is the "unlimited" stock class, as it lumps together everything from GT3 to Carrera GT, 918, and GT2RS. The index is higher than CC15 and you must run a street tire of >200 treadwear. The 991 GT3 is a CC14 car stock, running much stickier tires. There is little chance for me to get in the top-20 BRI running my car in SS09 on 300 treadwear tires (it's current configuration), although I have won it quite a few times in slower cars.

Every track is different. Some cars have an advantage at certain tracks and a disadvantage at others.
Amen. We used to have an index for AX and another one for TT. Now, we use the same indexes for both (after the last big rule change that created the new classification system). I think the current numbers are more accurate for TT than for AX. On the short tight courses of AX, a CC03-CC06 car is the sweet spot. In TTs, the faster cars (CC11 and up) always seem to win, looking at last year's results.

TT
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Re: Slow Car Fast

Postby mrondeau on Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:49 pm

As the new cars get faster and we see more of them, we need to add classes.
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Re: Slow Car Fast

Postby GT3 on Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:22 pm

mrondeau wrote:
GT3 wrote:But... As I look at the people above me on this list I see a lot of very capable drivers, most of which are probably a better driver then me simple because they have way more seat time than myself, so maybe there is some merit to the BRI system.
:banghead:

The BRI in CC16 is higher than it should be IMHO. It should be about half the increase it currently is. The BRI in CC15 is in line with all of the other classes. The BRI is based on a cars potential, not the drivers. Every track is different. Some cars have an advantage at certain tracks and a disadvantage at others. If you are driving at or near your cars potential, you'll do well in the BRI.

If the BRI for 16 was adjusted as I stated, based on a CC16 cars realistic potential, Rick Levenson would have been 5th in BRI, Jae Lee would have been 21st and you would have improved to 24th. Still room for improvement.

BTW, seat time and experience are crucial to becoming a good driver, but they need to go hand in hand with practicing good driving techniques, understanding the car's abilities and having the "feel, technique and finesse" to master the car. There is no "simple".


That was a typo... was suppose to be "Simply because they have more seat time than me".

I have already sent in a proposal to Zone8 about creating a CC17 class.
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Re: Slow Car Fast

Postby mrondeau on Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:24 pm

GT3 wrote:
mrondeau wrote:
GT3 wrote:But... As I look at the people above me on this list I see a lot of very capable drivers, most of which are probably a better driver then me simple because they have way more seat time than myself, so maybe there is some merit to the BRI system.
:banghead:

The BRI in CC16 is higher than it should be IMHO. It should be about half the increase it currently is. The BRI in CC15 is in line with all of the other classes. The BRI is based on a cars potential, not the drivers. Every track is different. Some cars have an advantage at certain tracks and a disadvantage at others. If you are driving at or near your cars potential, you'll do well in the BRI.

If the BRI for 16 was adjusted as I stated, based on a CC16 cars realistic potential, Rick Levenson would have been 5th in BRI, Jae Lee would have been 21st and you would have improved to 24th. Still room for improvement.

BTW, seat time and experience are crucial to becoming a good driver, but they need to go hand in hand with practicing good driving techniques, understanding the car's abilities and having the "feel, technique and finesse" to master the car. There is no "simple".


That was a typo... was suppose to be "Simply because they have more seat time than me".

I have already sent in a proposal to Zone8 about creating a CC17 class.


:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :surr:

I'm all out of crayons.
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Re: Slow Car Fast

Postby GT3 on Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:45 pm

mrondeau wrote:
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :surr:

I'm all out of crayons.


From the looks of your TT run, it seems you are out of tires too :roflmao:

Aren't you suppose to go into the hot laps when you go 4 tires off like that?
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Re: Slow Car Fast

Postby rshon on Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:18 pm

:banghead: -MEANS- "You did not get the point of my posts"

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :surr: -MEANS- "You continue to not get the point of my posts and I give up"

I don't see the translation for "crayons" in my eDictionary. It must be in the Gen-X edition (but I'm pretty sure it's not a compliment)...
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Re: Slow Car Fast

Postby GT3 on Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:21 pm

rshon wrote::banghead: -MEANS- "You did not get the point of my posts"

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :surr: -MEANS- "You continue to not get the point of my posts and I give up"

I don't see the translation for "crayons" in my eDictionary. It must be in the Gen-X edition (but I'm pretty sure it's not a compliment)...


It is not a compliment, you are correct, the funny thing though my post was agreeing with him but he did not see I that way.

He stated "As the new cars get faster and we see more of them, we need to add classes." so I commented I made the proposal for it.

And I just corrected my typo, so I guess that set him off... IDK anymore with Mark, maybe I somehow rub him the wrong way, but considering I have barely talked to him since he is not very approachable not sure why.
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Re: Slow Car Fast

Postby GT3 on Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:51 am

OK... This is will be my last post on this thread.

Over the weekend many people came up to me to tell me they agree with me in reference to this thread and at the end of the day I should be able to drive what ever I want without other people giving me a hard time about it.

By the end of Saturday I was so exhausted talking about it with so many people, that I didn't even want to talk about it anymore.

You either get what I been trying to say all this time about these newer GT cars and how much fun they still are with the TC and ESC engaged after this post or you don't.

I have 3 videos here to help explain myself a little better, for the final time.

First video is Dave Hockett driving my car for the 5th session in Orange group on Saturday, the tires were not new (same tires from SOW), so traction was not the best and we had some traffic to deal with but you will see his driving style is different then mine, which is not a bad thing just different.

You will see he does some steering correction as he try's to find the cars limit, and ultimately see for himself how forgiving the TC/ESC are.

He also makes some comments about it at the end of the video that you might want to watch.

Second Video is me driving on the same tires on the 4th session in Orange group on Saturday just to show a fair comparison, you will see I don't move the wheel as much as Dave does, but this is from my 1000+ hours of playing on my racing sim where if you move the wheel a lot, you will go off track pretty easy since those cars have no TC/ESC on any of them.

This might also be the reason why people make comments to me when they see my videos which states "it looks like you are playing a video game", well since I practice on one might very well be why they say that and why people assume my car drives itself.

Last video is me with new tires on for a 4th session in Red group on Sunday.

Robert Forrester was nice enough to come up to me on Sunday and offer that I follow him a session so I can see his breaking zones and lines and this was very appreciated and helpful, and the reason why I joined this club.

He also mentioned to me that others should be more constructive and help people out rather then being de-constructive which does no good for anyone and just causes unnecessary drama.

I also got a lot of nice words from Rick L on Sunday which helped me a lot since I was feeling discouraged about something else that happened that I won't even bring up since it is just more drama.

I could of joined any club, like Thermal or Spring Mtn for example, but I did not want to be hanging out with a bunch of snobby pretentious people, I am a down to earth person, very approachable, and wanted to hang out with others like myself.

I also work my a$$ off, and have never taken any handouts or help from anyone and up until 10 years ago, owning a car like mine was only a pipe dream, but now I get to live that dream I have had ever since I was 10 years old with that Porsche poster in my room of that beautiful 911 hanging on my wall.

BTW you can blame Mark Curran for this since he was the first person I called before buying my track car (have known him for 15 years), i asked him if I join the club which car should I buy, and his exact words were "if i were to do it all over again, I would of bought a GT3", so I did, and VERY HAPPY about it.

And you want to talk about being obsessed with this hobby/sport, I called Mike Avitt just about every day for the first 6 month at exactly 8am with questions I had about the GT cars, and what I can do to be a better driver and other things of that nature.

Anyhow... here are the videos, hope you enjoy.

First Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKs11zNd590

Second Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHRuWP0DAwo

Third Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYY-Q7pN4eE
Last edited by GT3 on Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Slow Car Fast

Postby Gary Burch on Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:26 pm

GT3 wrote:
And I just corrected my typo, so I guess that set him off... IDK anymore with Mark, maybe I somehow rub him the wrong way, but considering I have barely talked to him since he is not very approachable not sure why.


you need to buy him a drink first
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