Rule changes and X cars

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Rule changes and X cars

Postby sean996 on Fri Jul 30, 2004 8:05 am

Hey all,

If the rules are about to be re-written, how about trying to accomodate those of us that also have X cars. I really think this would be for the good of the club in the long run.

It seems as though members are OK with letting other members run X cars if it's other PCA members that are bringing them (not guests). . .

1. how about giving members an option to run X cars for an additional fee (more money for the club).

2. how about giving members an option to run an X car for just one of the practice sessions . . . an extra fee would definitely be justified because of the extra tech inspection.

I really like No. 2 because a person could get a real comparison between a couple of cars.

Thanks,

Sean
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Postby Jad on Fri Jul 30, 2004 10:29 am

I think that is a good idea worth considering, so be sure to submit it to the rules committee TODAY or it will not be considered. The website forum doesn't count.
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Postby paul-silver on Fri Jul 30, 2004 10:51 am

My suggestion: Allow members to run X cars, but no points can be accumulated for year-end awards in the X-class.

You can only run in one class per autoX, so if you bring an X car,
you cannot also run in a P-car class for points. Pick one.
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Postby sean996 on Fri Jul 30, 2004 10:55 am

What's these easiest way to send these suggestions "officially" to the committee?

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Postby MikeD on Fri Jul 30, 2004 11:02 am

sean996 wrote:What's these easiest way to send these suggestions "officially" to the committee?

Sean


Go to the zone rules page: http://www.pca.org/zone8/rules_discussi ... 01_000.jpg

Read this page as it has all the info you need.

And/or send email to rtp356@thecarriagehouse.net and the appropiate chair and president.
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Postby Steve Grosekemper on Fri Jul 30, 2004 2:21 pm

X-cars can not accumulate points and never have been able to.

The rule reads
X (Exhibition only) 924GT, 924GTS, 911RSR & other factory race cars and exotics. No points or trophies are awarded in this class. This is a class for those who want to have fun running their car but do not want to interfere with other participants' effort to win points or awards. This class includes non-Porsche cars.

Remember, this may be a better subject for the region and not the zone as we are the only ones who are having 140+ cars at our AX.

If you want to add to this rule you need to submit it to the zone rules page in this format.

http://www.pca.org/zone8/rules_discussi ... sPage1.htm

*Copy the currect rule
*State the change to the current rule
*Rationalize the reason for the change


Give only one change per rule and don't suggest several options.

When your suggestion is posted you will get e-mail notification.

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Postby John Straub on Fri Jul 30, 2004 2:39 pm

The rule seems clear to me. :?
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Postby Kim Crosser on Fri Jul 30, 2004 3:09 pm

The rule is "clear", except that it simply says allowing an X car is at "the discrection of the event chairman".

I think Dan made the right call re the Lotus clone at the last QDE for safety reasons, but what would be the outcome if the driver shows up at the next AX?

Since David Marguglio's friend was a bonafide "Affiliate" member (David officially notified PCA of this designation), that means he is entitled to the same rights and privileges as the rest of us.

I would hope that if a member (or bonafide "Affiliate" member) shows up at an event, safety should be the only reason to prevent them from running in the event. As long as the car techs ok and the driver meets the experience requirements for the event, there shouldn't be an issue.

Note that this doesn't mean that everyone can invite their friends down to play with their cars - to be an Affiliate member, you must be nominated in writing to PCA national and a member can only have one Affiliate (or family) member per year.
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Postby John Straub on Fri Jul 30, 2004 3:42 pm

"the discrection of the event chairman".

I think it's San Diego's rule not Zone 8's. This because of the number of cars we run. It's still clear to me. :)
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Postby MikeD on Fri Jul 30, 2004 3:55 pm

Kim Crosser wrote:[snip]

...and a member can only have one Affiliate (or family) member per year.


I'm curious as to why this. At some point I may want my dad, wife, and son (for the sake of argument) to all be able to drive my car in events. Can the same VIN be used on more than one PCA Membership application? If that is the case then I am cool with forcing my dad and wife to get their own memberships :D. If not then it seems logical to allow more than one affiliate member per membership.

Maybe this is for a different thread...
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Postby John Straub on Fri Jul 30, 2004 4:08 pm

Mike,

National says, you can only have one Affiliate or Family member at a time, however, you can change them more than once a year. I don't think they would like doing the input more than once. There is 50,000 plus members, they may not see the humor in it, if a lot of members were doing it.
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Postby John Straub on Fri Jul 30, 2004 4:11 pm

Mike,

More than one member can use the same VIN. :)
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Postby MikeD on Fri Jul 30, 2004 4:23 pm

OK, thanks for the answers John. Even though I may not understand the logic or reasoning behind them.

If my family should sprout interest... or sprout for that matter... I may be bummin VIN's off you multi-Porsche families ;).

Actually, I have a final question. Is the reason for a single affiliate because they think a someone might go buy a 944 for $3K and get all the fraternities at SDSU into the club and terrorize us?
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Postby kary on Fri Jul 30, 2004 10:04 pm

I have often thought about building an auto-x car such as a 550 spyder replica with a 6 cylinder engine that would be fun to drive, light wieght and very competitive at auto-x's. I enjoy auto-x and would like to have a car that is more nimble than most street Porsche's would ever be. I would really like to have a 908/3 but that is not likely to ever happen, but boy what fun that car would be in an auto-x!

Unfortunately, the PCA rules specify that the car entered must have a Porsche motor and a chasis thus ruling out this thought. I do not see what I would like to do to be any different than others in the club wanting to run Ferrari's, Lambo's, Audi', BMW's, or any other type of car except that I am trying to stay within the Porsche family and keep it affordable.

Some have told me if I want to build such a car that I should just join SCCA. Well, one reason that I do not do it is the friends that I have made over the past 8 years and the fact that I am not really interested in running three laps for an event. I enjoy the quality of our events, the track time (both auto-x and time trail) and do not want that to change. If we were to exclude X cars from the last auto-x we would have gained back 44 laps at around 100 seconds a lp on average. Is that significant, I willnot debate that, but I will say some cars probably should not belong there. So let's say that we extended the rules to something like what has been proposed in this and other threads. It seems to me that everyone will be wanting to bring their kit cars, race cars, and family cars to auto-x events. What would happen to the club events? Wold we suddenly have an influx of 20 X cars, 25 X cars, 30 X cars that are members and fell they have the right to run these non-Porsche cars?

I think over time we will get into trouble with technical inspections, safety of cars and the fitness of these cars to run more strenuous laps, we might get into trouble with our insurance (?), we might displace members who really want to run Porsche's. We end up putting a great burden on our chair people to make decisions that are really not necessary which only adds further stress to volunteers that dedicate much time and effort to make our events fun and profitable for our club.

I have seen our club evolve rules, particularly in auto-x that I do not always agree with and others fully agree with. Things like charging $20 more if you do not register ahead of time, loss of all timed laps for not corner working, or decisions about allowing X cars in or not seem to indicate that we have an over attendance issue. When we have to try and pump through more than 130 cars in a day for auto-x it is very difficult to do well and keep the quality fo the event high. This adds more stress to our volunteers. These measures have not slowed the participation, yet we are asking for some sort of allowance for non-Porsche cars which only contributes to this issue. We have had instructor days and fun auto-x days every year to accommodate peoples desire to run these non-Porsche X cars. Where does this end?

In my opinion, this is a Porsche club. Making specific rules to allow non-Porsche cars in auto-x will only hurt our ability to deliver a quality set of events where participation is already high and will be hindered by too many participates. Time Trial is a whole other discussion because of the lower participation levels, but has a serious safety aspect to it that I for one do not want to enter into our time trial events. We do not have good technical inspection for time trail non-Porsche cars and do not necessarily know those drivers. The risks are high for those non-Porsche dirvers/cars and even higher to the Porsche drivers/cars since we do not always know who is on the track with us. Sorry for the off track discussion but maybe we can discuss Time Trial non-Porche particpation in another thread.

So I still ask why do we really need to accommodate X cars? There are consequences to our events if we try and do this.
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Rules Committee

Postby tb911 on Fri Jul 30, 2004 11:02 pm

I would just like to point out that the Zone rules committee cares about two or three things:

Safety
Fairness
Classifications & Points for modifications

Or to put it another way, they care about one thing: Competition with Porsches

If you look at the X car rules, it rule reads:
X (Exhibition only) 924GT, 924GTS, 911RSR & other factory race cars and exotics. No points or trophies are awarded in this class. This is a class for those who want to have fun running their car but do not want to interfere with other participants' effort to win points or awards. This class includes non-Porsche cars.

Notice that it says nothing about if they can or cannot run in AX or TT/DE. Whether or not X-cars can run is a procedural issue of a particular event. That is not something the Zone rules committee deals with. That is purely at the discretion of the hosts of the event. In our case, that is at the San Diego Region board and committee chair level. Talk to your board members and your committee chairs, not the Zone rules committee.
Last edited by tb911 on Fri Jul 30, 2004 11:23 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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