kary wrote: Then there are the other members who will complain about X cars and taking track time away (auto-x).
So wouldn't enforcing the limitation on X-cars whenever there were more than 100 Porsches entered at an autox do that? I thought we already had that covered, but apparently not. I don't have any problem with that rule.
This is an additional load no matter how you slice it.
Sometimes we might want an additional load, in an under-subscribed event.
Additionally, I was trying to keep Time trial/DE out of the equation becasue there were some very serious close calls the first year of the CFoS with some Corvette guys who did not follow the point by rules
Shouldn't they be black-flagged, then? There are ways to deal with that situation. I was in that run group at the first CFoS event and he didn't cause me any problems, except when blocking the track at the exit one time.
We aren't quite on the same wave length here, Kary, as I was really
ONLY talking about Q-DEs, but TTs should be addressed also. Your arguments about the problems with autox I agree with entirely. But a simple regional policy statement, like "When Porsche entries to a PCA-SDR autocross exceed 100, no X-car entries will be accepted" would take care of that, no?
This is an issue and will get worse if we allow many non-Porsche cars into the DE/TT events seeing as we only have the drivers word in many cases to establish there skill set.
If you want to stop that problem, make a policy that requires outside drivers to be Zone 8 TT licensed or signed off by an instructor ride-along in at least the first session, if equivalent credentials can be provided by the driver.
What would have happened if there were a serious accident in that event? Maybe banning of non-Porsche cars?
There have already been 5 or 6 serious incidents this year, and we're still running, aren't we? This issue needs to be addressed by course design and safety policies.
Tom, if you want to run X cars or anyone else wants to do so, there are plenty of venues by which to do this.
I know that, Kary, and I have run with them, in and with a wide variety of cars. I've had a lot of fun doing it.
You seem to have assumed that I am advocating for wide open X car entries, by member and non-member alike, in any type of PCA-SDR event. That is not the case. I think the club serving members only is a fine principle. Limiting events to members only makes sense to me. I actually don't even care if we want to ban all X cars from big track Time Trials and DEs, if that's what the club thinks is best. I have already stated that I would never enter my current Lotus race car in such an event. But the issue under discussion was letting X cars run in a parking lot DE, where speeds are lower and driver skills/passing issues can be easily controlled. All I want to be able to do is run my X car in a DE at the Q, in the parking lot. The convenience of being able to do some setup and testing on it without driving 200 miles would be immense and a great benefit to me, and possibly other members. If the event is under attended, it is also a benefit to the club.
That is just my opinion and if you would like to submit a change to the rules please do so, and good luck!
It has already been stated by others in this thread that this is not an issue with Zone 8 rules. The current Zone 8 rules already allow X cars, at the discretion of the event chair. If you are really so concerned about the hordes of bad-driving Corvette and rice rocket owners who are about to overrun our club, why don't you submit a rule change that no X-cars are ever allowed?
What I am trying to do here is stimulate discussion of a regional policy, established by the SDR board, not the Zone, that limits and defines the extent of X car entries more clearly, to everyone's benefit. If such a policy was stated and adopted, it would take the heat off the event chairs, who currently hold this discretion under the current rules.
I would be fine with a policy that included any number of necessary limitations (as discussed above) in order to satisfy everyone's concerns. I would be completely happy if the policy only allowed X car entries at parking lot events (not big tracks) when Porsche entries were less than 100, or something, but I don't think that would be the best rule to serve the club's interests. Let's come up with a better one, by discussing it.
My intention in quoting your message is not to "divide and conquer", but to make my comments easier to understand in this medium. It is a common practice on the internet, dating back to the early days of Usenet, before the World Wide Web was built. I wish everyone would do it. It makes it easier to understand people's comments if you know what message they're responding to. Threads can get lengthy and confusing on these BBS forums.
TT