EricMarc-Aurele wrote:
At the volunteer party Dan Chambers was talking about his secrets to going fast at Big Willow and he repeatedly emphasized that how you come off the brakes is as important as how you apply them. Perhaps a compromise is to discuss smooth brake release, and as the students perform well then discuss shifting the braking so that the release is continuing as turn in begins. Big track really made the nuances of weight shift easier to grasp for me, as you spend more time at the edges of the friction circle it becomes easier to see the negative effect of being jerky with your inputs/weight transfer.
Tom Helvey wrote:Like heel-toe, trail braking should be taught once a driver has demonstrated that they can safely drive the track (Signed off for Solo).
Trail braking is absolutely essential for getting the fastest times, but that's not what we teach our novice drivers. We want everyone to drive safely first of all.
dcarusillo wrote: I never really understood this concept of trail braking not being safe. I understand the increased possibility of flat spotting a tire....in a non ABS car.
But given what most Members now "race" (modern electronic hammers) why is gradually releasing the pedal "unsafe"?
TL/DR: I agree with Dan that we should be teaching this. I tend to teach trail braking fairly early on,
dcarusillo wrote:Excellent discourse. Nice input from our Instructors as well. Much Appreciated.
Alex makes important points re heel/toe. For those reasons heel toe is an essential component of driving a manual tranny, ......anywhere.Trail braking is absolutely essential for getting the fastest times, but that's not what we teach our novice drivers. We want everyone to drive safely first of all.
I never really understood this concept of trail braking not being safe. I understand the increased possibility of flat spotting a tire....in a non ABS car.
But given what most Members now "race" (modern electronic hammers) why is gradually releasing the pedal "unsafe"?
afilsinger wrote:I disagree with you that heel-toe is an advanced skill. In my opinion heel-toe should be a pre-requisite to driving a manual car on track. It is a basic fundamental that mitigates a safety issue AND mechanical problems. If you don't rev match your downshifts, you run the risk of binding up the drive wheels and spinning the car. Rev matched downshifts eliminate this by keeping the car balanced and happy, as well as limiting mechanical strain on the driveline.
Cars do not brake well in a corner, though modern traction control does a great job of hiding that fact. You can often brake LATER if you brake hard in a straight line to slow the car, then as Alex said, the key is how you come off the brakes. You need to gently roll off the brakes as you turn to the apex AFTER your straight line braking to help with rotation by keeping the front tires loaded appropriately. Riding this edge of traction is also an advanced skill that takes practice to feel that is only getting harder to learn as the modern cars hide this limit by cutting things off way before the limit and dragging only one brake to stop the desired rotation.
One of the main reasons I don't teach much anymore is that all of these technique and results can be demonstrated and learned in a old 911 or 944 or Miata, but I have no idea how to even begin to teach that stuff to a computer controlled GT3 or any other new Porsche. New systems work so smoothly, new drivers have no idea the cars is driving, not them. Even with traction control "off" it usually kicks in when you touch the brakes and I certainly can't keep track from year to year and model to model if you can turn it off, how much, and what mode is best as Porsche really does not want you to know the truth about all that.
I think the best reason to teach some of this stuff is to build excitement to keep drivers coming back, not to improve lap times or make them safer.
LUCKY DAVE wrote:They may be driving a rented box truck on a snowy mountain road when they move to Colorado
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