Buttonwillow Turn by Turn Description

[richard]

Golden Gate Region's web site has an excellent turn by turn description of Buttonwillow, complete with pictures. See http://www.pca-ggr.org/pdf/bw-clockwise.pdf. You might even find a video if you know how to look.

[Pete Millikin]

Very nice package. Thanks

[Gary Burch]

I checked the regestration sheet for the Buttonwillow event from the Gplden Gate Region. Is that right, for the weekend it is $145 + $10 for a transponder? They do have sponsers listed, they must pay for the track fees.

[kary]

Oh my, they have a great price list.

$145 for the weekend versus our $275
$195 for the weekend (student driver) versus our $275
$10 transponder Rental versus our $30?
$25 overnight camping fee versus our $60 and another $45 hook up fee
$10 off second driver discount at $135 versus our $275
$80 late fee versus our $25

Wow this is almost half of what we pay to register and around 60 to 70% off on other options like transponders, camping etc. They do charge more for being late though....significant difference. They do seem to have a large list of Sponsors on the entry form.........

[Robert]

Perhaps group9motorsports is interested in sponsoring the event??? I know we've referred a ton of transponder business to them. Perhaps you could contact the owner for us and see?

It's also possible that they have 100 or so participants. If we could get that, we could cut our prices too. Of course, you'd only get half the track time, but perhaps that's worth saving a few bucks?

[kary]

Perhaps group9motorsports is interested in sponsoring the event??? I know we've referred a ton of transponder business to them. Perhaps you could contact the owner for us and see?

It's also possible that they have 100 or so participants. If we could get that, we could cut our prices too. Of course, you'd only get half the track time, but perhaps that's worth saving a few bucks?

Robert, I am the one who just pointed out that they had a ton of sponsors as did Gary. It is in fact likely that with the sponsor list they have explains why there prices are significantly less than ours, but more on that in a moment.

As for your referrals on transponders, I think the folks that should be thankful are the members not me. The first 20 transponders I sold at cost for no profit. The next set (since that time to the present (total of 9)) , were sold at a $20 profit to help compensate me for my time. I would be happy to push them to the retail level which would be another $25 ($45 profit), but that is not why I proposed to the region board to sell the transponders to our members, it was to provide them a discount and help promote our new transponder system that we invested so much money in.

At any rate, not much of a profit on a $300+ per unit product. AMB is making a killing off of these units and will not offer me (or the region) any better pricing (so-called wholesale). So how might a business like myself sponsor an event on that profit margin? Let's see, 9 transponders times $20 is $180 in profit, gee that does not even pay for my entry in 1 event in our region even if I did not pay taxes on the profit! I pass along the same level of savings on all my the products I offer. The fact is I am trying to pass along price breaks to our members, which by my calculation is already sponsoring the club, right?

Backing up to the deferred topic above, maybe the real answer is in where the sponsor money we do get is going? As I understand it, the windblown witness costs quite a bit to print and dsitribute. Does the Golden Gate Region have a nice magazine like ours? I doubt it, but then they likely sink their sponsorship money into off setting member costs at their time trail event given the more than half price registrations and accessory fees as compared to ours. Do we have as many sponsors as they do? Do we have as many particpates as they do? I do not know, but I do know many folks complain about our time trail event rates.

I for one will continue to support our events regardless of price, but I will also continue to challenge our thoughts and policies because the alternative is a really poor place for our club to be.

[Robert]

No sweat, Kary, I was just messing with you. Reality is at next weekend's event, for example, we'll likely end up just a bit over breakeven with the number of drivers that show up. The economics are pretty straightforward...more drivers (but possibly less track time) or sponsorship = lower entry fees. Without one of those two things, there's nothing that can be done to make it cheaper.

Personally, I'd be fine with a lower cost Witness so that those funds could be redistributed into driving events. That's a board level decision of course. Or if someone would like to go out and try to get sponsorship for the TT season, that'd be even better.

Regarding transponders, with 5 events per year in our series, we need to charge $30 per rental otherwise we won't recover their cost over their useful life. If we had more events per year, we could lower the cost. But then if we did that, we'd likely have less drivers per event and would have to raise entry fees. I'd encourage anyone who's driving in our series to purchase a hardwired transponder (from group9motorsports, of course)...better economics and no hassles, just hook it up once and forget about it.

[ajackson]

This might have something to do with it:

WORKER REQUIREMENTS
Each driver may provide a worker (minimum age 18 years) for
one day. Check-in time is 7:30 am on the day assigned to you
in your confirmation notice. If your worker is late, you
will miss the first run session. If your worker does
not show, you will not be allowed to run for the
entire weekend. WARNING: You cannot pay for a worker at
the track. A limited number of paid workers are available at a
cost of $95 and may be requested in the FEES section of the
registration. PAID WORKERS ARE SUBJECT TO
AVAILABILITY-REQUEST THEM EARLY AND BE SURE THEY
ARE CONFIRMED.

$145 + $95 = $240 is a lot closer to what we charge.

[kary]

This might have something to do with it:

WORKER REQUIREMENTS
Each driver may provide a worker (minimum age 18 years) for
one day. Check-in time is 7:30 am on the day assigned to you
in your confirmation notice. If your worker is late, you
will miss the first run session. If your worker does
not show, you will not be allowed to run for the
entire weekend. WARNING: You cannot pay for a worker at
the track. A limited number of paid workers are available at a
cost of $95 and may be requested in the FEES section of the
registration. PAID WORKERS ARE SUBJECT TO
AVAILABILITY-REQUEST THEM EARLY AND BE SURE THEY
ARE CONFIRMED.

$145 + $95 = $240 is a lot closer to what we charge.

That is a more plausible explanation for the difference in cost.

[David J Marguglio]

Just out of curiosity, what are the fixed costs of a TT weekend (track rental, corner workers, insurance, etc.)? I am wondering how much corporate sponsorship it would require to bring the cost down to what GG region is charging. I for one would be more likely to do the occasional time trial if it didn’t cost as much as a race. Perhaps that is something that shops around town (MOM, Blackforest, Dieters, etc.) would consider doing one a year?

[MikeD]

I think the GG region also classifies Sat. as a DE and Sun. is the TT. This may make a difference in insurance and participation.

Also, I spectated at a GG region event (@ Infineon) a couple months ago. Lots of quiet time between run groups. Lots of cars in the run groups.

I think, in this case anyway, you get what you pay for.

But I am totally in favor of getting sponsorship for our TT's. Bring the cost down a bit. But then again with all the track time we currently get, I am no completely convinced that lowering the costs is a good thing. Less costs == more drivers. More drivers == more hassles, downtime, etc.