Buttonwillow time trail results are up here.....

[Otto]

I was unfortunately not able to attend the Buttonwillow event but have watched the results with interest.

From the postings above I noted that Evan Beal's GT3 posted a great time but was running R-rated tires and, as such, was not properly classified in PSS. His car should instead be classified in PS. Likely an honest mistake by Evan but it should now be corrected to be fair to all participants as it affects no only the Class and BRI standings but also puts a Track Record on the books which likely will not be broken easely by a properly classified car.

Kary/Robert, since you maintain the files, would you make the respective correction? Situations like this, if confirmed, should always be corrected without having to go thru Protest proceedings in the interest of fairness and to keep our motivation up.

[Steve Grosekemper]

It's great to see the questions posted here about tire rules, because if one person doesn't get it he probably isn't alone. But for anyone who has questions you can just click the rules page and submit a question. I hear the rules guy actually checks and reponds to his emails occasionally.

http://www.pcasdr.org/tech/rules.html

It is right there in the second paragraph.

BTW- All the responses are right on...which one of you wants the rules job next year? Greg, I hear you will be having some spare time...

[kary]

I was unfortunately not able to attend the Buttonwillow event but have watched the results with interest.

From the postings above I noted that Evan Beal's GT3 posted a great time but was running R-rated tires and, as such, was not properly classified in PSS. His car should instead be classified in PS. Likely an honest mistake by Evan but it should now be corrected to be fair to all participants as it affects no only the Class and BRI standings but also puts a Track Record on the books which likely will not be broken easely by a properly classified car.

Kary/Robert, since you maintain the files, would you make the respective correction? Situations like this, if confirmed, should always be corrected without having to go thru Protest proceedings in the interest of fairness and to keep our motivation up.

Otto, at others requests I submitted informal protest to Jack and Robert. They have ruled on this. See Jack's post about the rules. Protests need to occur at or just after the event. The other option is Evan can withdraw from the class for that event. Have not heard from Evan on this forum or via any other means.

So as it stands right now the posted results will remain.

[Otto]

Kary:

I saw Jack's post of the Protest Rules but did not know they had ruled against a tacit reclassification of Evan's car. I believe that Evan should be contacted and amicably requested to reclassify his car for the sake of good order and since other competitors have requested it. He must have an e-mail address that he provided when he registered. He likely will not have a problem with this request, and if he does we will all know the kind of competitor he is. It is not a big deal but matters like this should be dealt with so that they are less prone to occur in the future.

[Jad]

The only problem with the rules is that no one could protest him, as he was about the only person in PSS and only people within the class can protest. Does the BRI class count???

Also, to rant a bit more, since the classes don't run together and times are not known, knowing when 30 minutes after a has run is very difficult. This club is for fun and true protests are very rare, which is good as I don't think the current system would work. So many people constantly changing tires, it would be easy to slip on slicks for timed runs, do your cool down and change back while your competitor is still on the track.

Definitely not saying that happened, just that cheating would be very easy in our club, the question would be why? You couldn't feel good about winning by cheating and the prize money isn't that great yet

[John Bell]

Actually I was there and in PSS. I asked Kary the question about the tires on Saturday. He wasnt completely sure, so he called Jack over who was just across from us in the pits. Jack said at that time Evan was in the wrong class if he was using MPSC's. I assumed that it would be addressed since Jack was running the event.

I was surprised when I saw the final times posted on Monday that Evan was still in PSS. I asked Kary about it and he said I could make a protest by sending him an email which is what I did. Then he sent me Jacks response. I wish someone would have told me on Saturday that I needed to do something more than just notify Jack of the issue. The first line in the rules regarding protests states this:

"An informal discussion with the Event Chair and the concerned parties may resolve the possible protest."

We did have an informal discussion but it started as more of a question on my part because I am new to all this and did not have a clear understanding of the rules about car classes. I guess I should have said "I protest" when Jack said Evan was in the wrong class

I am kind of dissapointed this even became an issue in the first place because it seemed pretty black and white to me.

With that said, I want to make it clear that I had a great time and this issue was insignificant to me in the overall experience of the time trial. Having fun and learning how to be a better driver are infinitely more important to me than anything else.

John

[ttweed]

Having fun and learning how to be a better driver are infinitely more important to me than anything else.

Yes, but winning your class is nice, too!

I agree with Otto--someone should contact Evan and see if he was running R-compound tires in timed runs, and ask him to voluntarily reclassify his car after the fact. His time was good enough to win PS as well, anyway! It may be that he just wasn't aware of the prohibition against tires of <140 treadwear in SS this year. I would hope this kind of error could be caught in tech and corrected before the event, but it's not a perfect world and the tech inspectors are usually looking at tread on the tires and not treadwear ratings.

I also agree with Jad--something is wrong with our protest rules if this kind of infraction cannot be corrected except by formal protest within the 30-minute impound period. We do not run all entrants in a class together so that they are able to inspect competitors cars in impound after the session, so that procedure is ineffective.

TT

[Otto]

John:

Although this issue is not very significant in the scheme of things, as you well point out, it needs to be addressed. Since the normal process to resolve issues like this did not work this time, this forum can and has brought to the attention of all the fact that somebody did not play by the rules, whether knowingly or because he didn't read the rules carefully.

I suggest that you, the most affected party, find out Evan's e-mail, which should be available from Registration, and write to him requesting that he reclassify his car voluntarily. This case is a no-brainer so Evan surely will be willing to reclassify his car. If he does not want to do so or fails to respond, please tell us all because this will give us an indication of the kind of competitor and person we are dealing with. You can advise him that we are all watching and if he has any doubt of this, all he needs to do is read this forum.

[jrgordonsenior]

I just spoke tyo Evan on the phone. He knows nothing about his classification, and said he always runs in PS not PSS. He doesn't know how he was classified there (I was misclassifed too), but it is an error. He was just walking into a meeting (I got him on his cell), and stated he was fine with being correctly reclassified.

[John Bell]

I called Evan this morning too. He said he was not aware of what had happened and is going to get in touch with Jack and ask him to make the change right away.

Thanks Evan!

John

[bobbrand]

So many people constantly changing tires, it would be easy to slip on slicks for timed runs, do your cool down and change back while your competitor is still on the track.

Ah ha!! I knew it!

[David J Marguglio]

I just got off the phone with sources believed to be close to Evan and they indicated that Evan would not be voluntarily withdrawing from PSS class, but instead he was going to file a protest against Kary Clement’s car and his Top 10 position. The source explained that it is Evan’s position that Kary was using an improper ballast that allowed him to “potentially” run under the minimum weight required for his class.

I spoke with Kary and he indicated that, “At now time did he run underweight.” He further asserted that he was appalled at the suggestion and that he stood prepared to provide evidence that he was in compliance with the current rules and regulations, but added that perhaps the regulation is unclear.

At issue are the legality of two carbon-fiber fuel tanks within Kary’s main fuel cell. Evan’s people believe that through a complex system of siphoning fuel back and forth from the smaller tanks, it would keep several gallons of fuel in reserve after the tank had been pumped dry and thusly provide and illegal ballast when the car was weighed. If this proved to be true it would remove Kary from the Top Ten list and bump everyone (including Evan) up the list.

Jack Miller weighed in with the following: “It may not possible for PCA to find that Kary deliberately committed fraud. However, Kary displayed a highly regrettable negligence and lack of transparency.”

[kary]

I just got off the phone with sources believed to be close to Evan and they indicated that Evan would not be voluntarily withdrawing from PSS class, but instead he was going to file a protest against Kary Clements car and his Top 10 position. The source explained that it is Evans position that Kary was using an improper ballast that allowed him to potentially run under the minimum weight required for his class.

I spoke with Kary and he indicated that, At now time did he run underweight. He further asserted that he was appalled at the suggestion and that he stood prepared to provide evidence that he was in compliance with the current rules and regulations, but added that perhaps the regulation is unclear.

At issue are the legality of two carbon-fiber fuel tanks within Karys main fuel cell. Evans people believe that through a complex system of siphoning fuel back and forth from the smaller tanks, it would keep several gallons of fuel in reserve after the tank had been pumped dry and thusly provide and illegal ballast when the car was weighed. If this proved to be true it would remove Kary from the Top Ten list and bump everyone (including Evan) up the list.

Jack Miller weighed in with the following: It may not possible for PCA to find that Kary deliberately committed fraud. However, Kary displayed a highly regrettable negligence and lack of transparency.

. Well written! Though not true very entertaining. On my behalf I am sure Jay will be my witness as he set up my car. Maybe this is just an attempt to slander another race shop cleverly disguised to point to me because the accusing race shop had no car in the top ten?

[Steve Grosekemper]

Kary,
I think you are onto something here!
Sounds like a conspiracy.....

Mark me down for 3 in the top ten, and B.F. gets at least 2.

Yep, Sounds like a conspiracy.....

[David J Marguglio]

Maybe this is just an attempt to slander another race shop cleverly disguised to point to me because the accusing race shop had no car in the top ten?

Kary you are such an A$$. How could you possibly take what was so obviously a humorous poke comparing how this supposed protest over a non-issue of misclassification to the FIA’s ruling against BAR/Honda and turn it into a slap a local repair shop? Both of whom, I should add, have are friends of this club. Perhaps you should worry less about those shops and spend more time figuring out how you can utilize this forum for free advertising to further your own business interests.

Case in point:

While Sparco may be having a sale you might try looking at the Sparco products I offer which are significantly lower than the retial prices that Sparco charges for products....just a thought.