HANS Device

[harnishclan]

We all know that no device is infallible. Helmets crack, rollcages crush, firesuits burn. And there is no disputing that HANS devices have also failed allowing injury. The real point is, how much safer is using one of these over not. More times than not, it is going to help rather than hinder. Especially if used correctly. That is why we all wear helmets at driving events. And just for the record, Bobby Labonte was stuck because his microphone cord was zip tied to the inside headrest bar of his seat and there was no quick release. Since that particular incident, Dale Jarrett, Ken Schrader, and Kevin Harvick have all been "trapped" because of microphone cords. NASCAR now mandates a slip type quick release after the last point of tie down to the car.

[MikeD]

...Hans is the only head and neck device that has passed 2005 safety test....

Craig

Wrong.

It is the only device to have trapped drivers in burning cars and sent drivers to hospitals without having crashed, however.

This is not the place for commercial promotion, Craig.

In the interest of full disclosure, I'd like to know if gbaker is in fact ...Gregg Baker, inventor of another head and neck restraint device, the Isaac System... (http://www.catchfence.com/html/2003/mt040703.html)

Curious minds want to know...

[gbaker]

Mike,

One and the same sir, as noted (or equivalent) in the profile.

The author of that article didn't get into the details of the development effort. A full list of the players is here:

http://www.isaacdirect.com/html/OtherPages/Ack.html

[kary]

It seems to me after reading an awful lot about the various H&N systems that while they may all be very helpful in a crash the real determining factors for me are these:

1. Which ones provide the most latitude to install incorrectly?
2. Which ones are the hardest to get out of the car in an emergency situation?
3. Which ones restrict normal head movement when driving?
4. Which ones affect a persons seating position (seat set up, etc.)?

For me, and this is just me, I have paid quite a bit of attention to my seat position angle shoulder strap heights, etc. to fit my body which has a very long torso creating different issues in seating properly and in comfort. As I look at the various solutions offered by the various manufacturers of H&N systems I see draw backs to each for my particular situation.

What I think is important for each person to decide is not what is most popular, but which one works for your set up and provides safety. Only the individual can decide which one works best for their situation and deciding safety is limited to the published data for each device. So I come back to my questions and here is how I have answered them for my situation:

*Assumption: I have ruled out all but the Hans and Isaac devices because the others seem to have more issues, at least for me in the overall assessment.

1: It seems to me the Hans has the most latitude to install incorrectly or allows the user of the device to allow the device to loosen up the straps over time. This is the critical factor in saving your life. If those straps are too loose then your head will incur a big load once your body begins to stop in an accident. On the other hand the Isaac does not suffer from this situation since the shock does not allow "slack" to occur. There are also the issues of slippage on a Hans that many seem to complain about. I am worried for in my case that having such a large device on large torso will just aggravate by seating situation.

2: I think both the devices suffer here in that the Hans makes it difficult to get out of the car window if needed but is easy to get out of in you are awake and alert. The Isaac you must be awake to unbolt the latches on the helmet but then it is easy to get out of a window if need be. For me, as a big guy, having something large on an already large body is not appealing.

3. This is a tough call because in the case of the Hans it depends upon how tight the straps are while the Isaac it does not matter. I have talked with people about this and they have loosened the Hans straps to gain mobility. For Isaac users they seem to only notice a slight restriction when in the pits but do not notice it on the track. Again, loose straps make the device less effective.

4. It appears after trying out a Hans that my seating position is somewhat changed, or at least feels like it is changes and is less comfortable, in my opinion. This might change over time, but I like my seating position now as it is very comfortable. The Isaac, which I have not tried yet, seems like there is not affect to the seating position what so ever and works well with your seating position.

So those are my thoughts in my case. I welcome other thoughts regarding my situation that I may not have thought about, note I have not put all my thoughts down just what I have boiled this whole thing down to be for me.

Let the debate begin (Greg, Craig, you are welcome to chime in here as well, but let's keep the debate on the technical merits of the points )

[MikeD]

3. This is a tough call because in the case of the Hans it depends upon how tight the straps are while the Isaac it does not matter. I have talked with people about this and they have loosened the Hans straps to gain mobility. For Isaac users they seem to only notice a slight restriction when in the pits but do not notice it on the track. Again, loose straps make the device less effective.

Kary,

I understand your points about not wanting something big attached to you as you are trying to evacuate the car.

However, looking at the photo below, it appears as though the Isaac is just as dependant on the strap tightness as the HANS. So I am confused as to why you would state it does not matter.

[David J Marguglio]

Well it looks like Kary and I agree on something. I too have spent some time evaluating these two and have come to nearly the same conclusions on each point.

Mike: I am not sure if I understand your question. There are no straps on the Isaac system; it hard connected to the hemet and your shoulder straps. The only slack (as I understand the reviews and technical info) is in the movement of the shocks. The straps that Kary is referring to on the HANS are the straps that attach to the helmet. These are static and therefore there is a compromise between the amount of protection vs. the amount of movement. Having raced a slower car last year, (135 hp) not being able to freely move my head from mirror to mirror with a correctly adjusted HANS device is a riskier propsition than any of the downside of the Isaac.

Having said that, I have already installed the HANS clips to my helmet and plan to try it out at my next track event and then rent the Isaacs system for comparison. I will post my impressions after I have experienced both.

[MikeD]

OK, I misunderstood. The "straps" I thought Kary was talking about where the shoulder straps. Which both devices depend upon.

For the sake of being clear maybe "tether" would be a better word when describing how each device is attached (or not) to the helmet.

Maybe my HANS isn't adjusted correctly (I made no adjustments when it arrived). But I did not have a problem using my mirorrs at either BW or WSIR in the last two weeks. The only time I have trouble is looking over my shoulder when backing up to make sure there are no kiddies or doggies about to be maimed. Also, it was a bit difficult seeing my camera to make sure it was in record mode before the race last weekend . I don't think either of these are cause for alarm though...

[martinreinhardt]

There are FOUR types of HANSueli devices!!! I understand they are supose to save our necks, but I have not found one device that I really want. (Don't like them) So for now I will try to stay away from walls.

The HANS looks cool, but $950 for the sedan and $1200 for the Formula version or more

The ISAC doesn't look all that great, but appears to be functional (maybe even better than the hansueli) plus it is affortable from what I read.

Questions:
Can it be adjusted to be used with all types of cars?
Is it FIA approved? (Personally, I don't care what DOT or NASCAR says)
How quick can you get in and out of the car with the ISAC?

[Ted Myrus]

Interesting, but silly discussion. Head and Neck restraints are clearly a safety improvement. I have a HANS and there is nobody cheaper then me (ask my wife!). True it is some what more restrictive and difficult to get in and out of the car, and I always curse that damn roll cage everytime I crawl in and out of the car, but I wouldn't run without it. Another point, HANS meets SFI specification as well as FIA standard, do the others?

[Kim Crosser]

Perhaps this would make a really good tech session? Have engineers from both the HANS and Isaac products explain the pros and cons? Maybe even a demonstration of bailing out of a car after an incident?

From reading the tech literature, I like the Isaac design better (not that I need it for the Q ). The shock absorber approach seems better both from flexibility and acceleration resistance.

[MikeD]

So for now I will try to stay away from walls.

Tried that. Didn't work out as well as I had planned .

[martinreinhardt]

Kim: I think that would be an excellent tech session.

Mike: Oh that's right, you had some wall marks.

[MVZ944T]

Well, this has been an interesting thread. Let me throw in a few more comments regarding the HANS device. I keep my shoulder harnesses very tight, and they are close together as they pass through the seat. I have had no problems with the belts coming off the device, nor have I had any more problems with mobility that I had with the doughnut style restraint that I had used previously. My take on the HANS in a crash is this; if your belts are a bit loose, (mine are not), in a frontal impact, unless they are very loose (which would make no sense), they would tighten (obviously) very quickly. The design of the HANS which comes down over the collar bones onto the chest keeps the device from moving forward, as long as the belts are tight. In a frontal collision, they will be tight. Again, unless your belts are so loose that it would preclude that from happening, and if that was the case, you shold not be driving a race car! Getting out of the car is a bit of a hassle, but not that bad. I have a halo system on my seat that is fairly pronounced, and I can get out okay with it on. My helmet may get scratched a bit, but I could care less about that in an emergency. Under normal circumstances I just pop the clips off and then take my helmet off and then the HANS off, in the car. I get in the same way. Getting the clips off takes a bit of practice and you would not want to try and do it in an emergency. I will most likely purchase the quick release units. Like Kary says though, there are I think pro's and con's to any unit and your personal likes and dis-like, plus body structure (your own, may very well have a bearing on what you wind up wearing). Be ready to buy something, as the chit chat in the POC is they may be required soon, and I would not be surprised to see other clubs and maybe tracks to require them, just for liability reasons.

[David J Marguglio]

if your belts are a bit loose, (mine are not), in a frontal impact, unless they are very loose (which would make no sense), they would tighten (obviously) very quickly.

There seems to be some confusion in this discussion about tightening. It is not belts that we are speaking of as being a determinant of the efficacy of the HANS device but instead the slack in the teathers. It is the teathers that determine how far your head/hemet will accelerate in relation to your torso before it is abruptly stopped by the device. Milimeter of distance increase the force exponentially. You can see the dispersion of the results in the SAE and the Wayne State tests and it has been widely speculated that many people are using the HANS device without proper adjustment of this teather and their actual results could be far worse than those in of the controlled environment. THIS is what people mean when they speak of the "belt" adjustment.

[kary]

if your belts are a bit loose, (mine are not), in a frontal impact, unless they are very loose (which would make no sense), they would tighten (obviously) very quickly.

There seems to be some confusion in this discussion about tightening. It is not belts that we are speaking of as being a determinant of the efficacy of the HANS device but instead the slack in the teathers. It is the teathers that determine how far your head/hemet will accelerate in relation to your torso before it is abruptly stopped by the device. Milimeter of distance increase the force exponentially. You can see the dispersion of the results in the SAE and the Wayne State tests and it has been widely speculated that many people are using the HANS device without proper adjustment of this teather and their actual results could be far worse than those in of the controlled environment. THIS is what people mean when they speak of the "belt" adjustment.

Yes, I think David is hitting on the point I was trying to convey in my post: however, David did it more elegantly than I.

The teather is the real issue in terms of H&N performance with the Hans device (and the Issac low cost teather model). The mere fact that it can be altered easily by the owner means that folks will get into trouble with it (my opinon). If for some reason they are in a accident and the Hans fails (BTW this applies to the new low priced Isaac as well, teather version) the manufacturer will just say that the user of the product did not configure it properly. For this and other reasons mention above I think the Isaac Intermediate product avoids that possible mis-use of the product since the shock does not allow slack in an abrupt situation.

I also agree with Ted and Mike V. and others and do want this critic of the products to be taken wrong. They all will help dramatically in the safety of all of us. I am just merely pointing out some of the criteria I have been using to select a device that will work for me.