PCA SDR

I'm amazed at the rhetoric surrounding "safety". Not only here, but at the other forums since the tragic accident at CASW. "when did a life cost less than 1000 dollars”? When did we think our mortal selves became immortal in a race car? Have you ever seen a professional football player go on the field WITHOUT a helmet? Have you ever seen a “professional” race car driver get into a car for a race without a HANS device or fire suppression? I really don’t care what system you invest in, but invest in one!

It’s amazing how we spend out discretionary money: springs, shocks, roll bars, tyres, bigger engines, but when it comes to safety we always argue the point of “why”?

I remember at the last DE in SD I was waiting in the inspection line. A participant in the other line was getting inspected and didn’t have a fire extinguisher. He said it was waived because he was a “new” student. Long story short, as I recall he was allowed to run the DE without a safety device that is clearly marked as a necessity(not an option in the rules). The short story is” we have to show a valid membership card to clear inspection”, but not have the minimum amount of safety devices required in our cars? I’m puzzled?

I’m not pointing out the loopholes in our rules, but the fact that we’d let someone go on a track unprepared. There’s a lot of push back on safety devices and their costs on our site. IMO This should be paramount at any costs. Safety should come first and foremost in our cars, before upgrades to a car, yet it seems that most of us think what happen at CA will never happen to us. At a minimum the Club and it’s drivers “could” be prepared. My2Cents

David Ray wrote:I remember at the last DE in SD I was waiting in the inspection line. A participant in the other line was getting inspected and didn’t have a fire extinguisher. He said it was waived because he was a “new” student. Long story short, as I recall he was allowed to run the DE without a safety device that is clearly marked as a necessity(not an option in the rules). The short story is” we have to show a valid membership card to clear inspection”, but not have the minimum amount of safety devices required in our cars? I’m puzzled?

David- No need to be puzzled. As the Tech chair for that DE event, and the person who inspected the student's car in question, I can tell you that your assumption that the student was allowed to participate without required safety equipment is mistaken. He was shown the relevant rule and given the opportunity to correct the deficiency or go home. I advised him to go next door to Lowe's and purchase a 10BC extinguisher with vehicle bracket if he wanted to participate that day. He did, and installed it, was re-inspected and approved before the 9:00am start. He would never have been allowed to run without it.

I applaud your concern for safety, but your "recollection" about the events of that day is incomplete and leaves the impression that PCA-SDR is lax in enforcement of safety provisions. This is incorrect and unfair to the Club.

TT

ttweed wrote:

David Ray wrote:I remember at the last DE in SD I was waiting in the inspection line. A participant in the other line was getting inspected and didn’t have a fire extinguisher. He said it was waived because he was a “new” student. Long story short, as I recall he was allowed to run the DE without a safety device that is clearly marked as a necessity(not an option in the rules). The short story is” we have to show a valid membership card to clear inspection”, but not have the minimum amount of safety devices required in our cars? I’m puzzled?

David- No need to be puzzled. As the Tech chair for that DE event, and the person who inspected the student's car in question, I can tell you that your assumption that the student was allowed to participate without required safety equipment is mistaken. He was shown the relevant rule and given the opportunity to correct the deficiency or go home. I advised him to go next door to Lowe's and purchase a 10BC extinguisher with vehicle bracket if he wanted to participate that day. He did, and installed it, was re-inspected and approved before the 9:00am start. He would never have been allowed to run without it.

I applaud your concern for safety, but your "recollection" about the events of that day is incomplete and leaves the impression that PCA-SDR is lax in enforcement of safety provisions. This is incorrect and unfair to the Club.

TT

David:

As the Chair of the DE event I can concur with Mr. Tweed. I was made aware of the situation by the student, who was concerned about the start time, and losing track time. I told him there was plenty of time to get the necessary parts and not miss a single lap. He did what was necessary, and was in compliance. No car ran in the DE without the minimum safety requirements. As the Chair of driving events past, many a driver will tell you I NEVER bend the rules when it comes to safety, and safety equipment. It is both my personal attitude, and the policy of the PCA-SDR that safety rules are RIGOUROUSLY enforced, without exceptions. At the same DE we had a Boxter with inappropriate bolts for his 5-point harness. When we said they were out of compliance, he briefly protested that they were installed by a shop in his home town, and were acceptable in his region. WE said no. He went to a local shop, and spent the better part of the evening with the shop owner installing the proper bolts. He was re-inspected, and passed.

Some drivers will tell you I'm "unnecessarily strict" when it comes to safety equipment, safe vehicles, and safe track designs. D@MN RIGHT! Can you be too safe? Can you be too concerned about driver's well being? I won't compromise safety for "a little more fun and advanture."

Tom Tweed, Dave Gardner, Steve Dente, Steve Grosekemper, Gary Burch, Chuck Sharp, Curt Yaws, Carl Scragg, Jad Duncan, Jack Miller, Keith Verlaque, Bob Schang, The CDI's, and many others should be applauded for their efforts to keep every event safe. Hours and hours of volunteer time behind the scenes over the years by many members have insured a safe driving program with lots of fun.

I, for one, applaud the efforts of everyone who puts safety above all else. Keep up the good work, guys and gals!

David, your concern for safety is commendable. I'm very happy to see people with eyes wide open to the issues of safety. You really can't be too safe, IMHO.

Now, back to your regularly scheduled net-surfing.......

Dan Chambers wrote: At the same DE we had a Boxter with inappropriate bolts for his 5-point harness. When we said they were out of compliance, he briefly protested that they were installed by a shop in his home town, and were acceptable in his region. WE said no. He went to a local shop, and spent the better part of the evening with the shop owner installing the proper bolts. He was re-inspected, and passed........

Just to clarify the timeline on the Boxster incident-- the inappropriate fastening of the 5-point restraints in the Boxster was discovered during tech inspection at the autox the previous day (Sat.) by Mr. Grosekemper. The owner was allowed to run the autox because he still had the factory 3-point belts installed also, but was told that the 5-points would NOT be allowed for the DE the next day.

The owner took the car to Jae Lee, who burned some midnight oil that evening to accomplish a proper installation of the race belts, and he was able to run on Sunday at the DE.

This type of discrepancy could never have been corrected on the morning of the event, as was possible with the fire extinguisher incident, and points out the advisability of having your car PRE-TECHED before any high performance driving event at a local shop which is familiar with Zone 8 rules, to avoid any such surprises (especially for first-timers.)

TT

Yes, that's right. He was informed at the A-X the previous day about his harness bolts. Thanks for clarifying that, Tom.

And I totally agree, Tom. Drivers should have their car Pre-Tech'ed .... not only for DE/TT's, but even for A-X's, if they have the time. I've had this conversation with Steve Grosekemper about pre-teching your car for an A-X. It is perfectly fine to pre-tech your car prior to an A-X. Then, you late-sleeping, coffee loving late-risers can arrive a little later, pre-tech'ed, and ready to go.

From what I understand, most of the authorized Tech Inspection shops in town have our Tech Inspection forms on file. If you're getting an oil change, tune up, tire rotation, etc., have them take the extra 10 to 15 minutes and fully tech the car for an upcoming event. I mean, why not?

David Ray wrote:I'm amazed at the rhetoric surrounding "safety". Not only here, but at the other forums since the tragic accident at CASW. "when did a life cost less than 1000 dollars”? When did we think our mortal selves became immortal in a race car? Have you ever seen a professional football player go on the field WITHOUT a helmet? Have you ever seen a “professional” race car driver get into a car for a race without a HANS device or fire suppression? I really don’t care what system you invest in, but invest in one!

It’s amazing how we spend out discretionary money: springs, shocks, roll bars, tyres, bigger engines, but when it comes to safety we always argue the point of “why”?

I remember at the last DE in SD I was waiting in the inspection line. A participant in the other line was getting inspected and didn’t have a fire extinguisher. He said it was waived because he was a “new” student. Long story short, as I recall he was allowed to run the DE without a safety device that is clearly marked as a necessity(not an option in the rules). The short story is” we have to show a valid membership card to clear inspection”, but not have the minimum amount of safety devices required in our cars? I’m puzzled?

I’m not pointing out the loopholes in our rules, but the fact that we’d let someone go on a track unprepared. There’s a lot of push back on safety devices and their costs on our site. IMO This should be paramount at any costs. Safety should come first and foremost in our cars, before upgrades to a car, yet it seems that most of us think what happen at CA will never happen to us. At a minimum the Club and it’s drivers “could” be prepared. My2Cents

As a rule from my travels between PCA regions and talking with people on other forums, our region has very good safety rules and enforces them extremely well. Many other regions do not require 5 points at big track events let alone fire bottles. I had to send a guy home for the PCA Festival of speed because he had some belt set up that he said was a 6 point system but in reality was a 4 point system with the lap belts attached to the seat versus the floor. Sub belts were also attached to the mounting point as the lap belts on the seats. He went home because he did not wish to have them drill anything into his GT3. We did not let him drive.

So until you actually do the tech work and instruct and send folks home after they drive 300 miles for miles, I do not think you have the knowledge nor the experience to make those statements about our club. Sorry for being somewhat harsh, but it is a bit insulting to those of us that work very hard to keep our club events and members safe.

Thanks for the clarification - I'll sleep a lot beter knowing the student actually corrected the problem before going onto the track.

I didn't know Tom was inspectiong the car but from past history I know he wouldn't let the student pass without the required safety devices. Glad to see there are no exceptions for a DE. Thanks for the security.

David Ray wrote:I didn't know Tom was inspectiong the car...

You're right--I wasn't the original inspector, I got called over to it by one of our loyal tech crew because of the discrepancy, and I had to pull out the rulebook and give him the bad news. I did do the re-inspection and final approval after he got back from Lowe's, however.

Basically, he misunderstood the "student" waiver for DE's at the Q which allows factory 3-point belts for the first 2 events in stock classes. He thought that also applied to the fire extinguisher prep, but it doesn't.

TT

Thanks Tom, and a big thanks to all the volunteers that take the time and give the extra effort to make these events happen. It's not easy getting there early and staying late. Thanks again.