US Grand Prix

[Chris Benbow]

SPEED Channel Formula One analyst Peter Windsor talked about Sunday's problems at Indianapolis during an appearance on "Wind Tunnel with Dave Despain."


"I think this business about the Michelin tires being unsafe to race has been exaggerated by the teams and, indeed, by Michelin, because as far as I understand it, they were only considered to be unsafe, by Michelin, on one very specific corner.

And talking to a lot of the drivers, there were ways of getting around that corner, reducing the amount of load that was going through it — obviously we are talking about Turn 13, the vertical load. So, I think first of all, we need to be very careful about "the tires were unsafe." I think they were unsafe, but unsafe when used in a specific way. Beyond that, I am as shattered as anyone else. I love Formula One. I've been involved for 30 years and to see that happen on the warm-up lap, the formation lap, all those cars coming in like that, I think it was an absolute disgrace. To be honest, our obligation in this sport, or any sport is to the fans and for that to happen is just appalling.

I think the Michelin was naive in thinking that there would be a solution that falls outside the framework of the Formula One regulations ... because they suggested a chicane that makes cars go slower through Turn 13, but that was never going to happen in a million years. The FIA, the governing body of the sport — this is the governing body that disqualifies cars for having a brake duct half a millimeter too large — they are never going to put in a chicane in on race morning, around which the cars are not allowed to practice or do anything at all ... equally, there was talk about using another batch of tires, but that was never going to happen either.

Tell me where the difference is in what happened Sunday and what might happen at any Grand Prix where there is a sudden downpour and one tire company, on intermediate tires, with no grip at all, everybody spins off on the straight and there is only five cars left in the race. That's happened before and everyone thinks "Wow, what a great race." They should have been out there racing and if there are problems, you drive around the problems as best you can. Racers are racers.

It's the teams, these massively paid teams and drivers, who have a responsibility to the fans ... not one of those Michelin team guys said "We made a horrendous mistake today and we take full responsibility." All they did was blame the FIA, blame Bernie (Ecclestone), blame Ferrari, blame Bridgestone, blame everyone else, but they never actually blamed themselves. Do you know how many teams from Michelin actually did the pre-USA tire test to select the correct tire for Indianapolis? Two — Felipe Massa and Anthony Davidson — everyone else was at Silverstone.

One of the watersheds was that Ecclestone stared people in the eye, literally eyeball to eyeball before the race, and said you are going to get in that car and race — not to the drivers, but to the team owners ... and they stared him back. At the end of the day, in this particular situation, the eyeballing didn't work for Bernie. It's the first time I can remember it not working for him, and there will be repercussions.

F1 is about people getting out there and going motor racing. We race in the rain. We race in the wind. We race in the hail. We race in the hot weather. And we have tire failures and lots of other terrible things, but that's what Formula One is all about, for good and for bad."

[Tim Comeau]

Pretty fascinating stuff! Thanks, Chris...
I'm going to write a book. "How not to manage a race series."

[RickK]

Anybody else wonder why there was a June 1st letter to the tire manufacturers? Something must have happend to prompt that.

Plus, from Formula1.com, "The FIA has ordered the seven Michelin teams to appear at a hearing of its World Motor Sport Council on Wednesday June 29 following their controversial withdrawal from the US Grand Prix."

I expect hearings and appeals, this whole thing is probably far from over.

[Chris Benbow]

I don't know but it might have had something to do with the fact that Kimmi Raikkonen had his right front MICHELIN disintegrate on the last lap of the European GP. He was leading the race comfortably when the tire destroyed the suspension members and the car slid off the end of the front straight.

[kary]

I don't know but it might have had something to do with the fact that Kimmi Raikkonen had his right front MICHELIN disintegrate on the last lap of the European GP. He was leading the race comfortably when the tire destroyed the suspension members and the car slid off the end of the front straight.

I believe that was a flat spot that just vibrated the suspension loose. The flat spot also started to break the tire tread loose a bit also, but it was the vibration that destroyed the suspension components until it finally broke off.

I do no tbelieve this was a tire problem, driver error on the flat spot.

[Greg Phillips]

F1 has just found out (probably again) how dangerous the tire wars can be. NASCAR and other have gone through this and have come down to a single supplier to eliminate these issues.
On the one hand F1 is changing several regulations in the purported intent of reducing costs and slowing down the cars, and on the other hand Michelin and Bridgestone are spending incredible amounts to make them faster, but at the expense of safety
Yes they bring a lot of sposnorship money, but if they can't produce a safe tire, what is the advertising value?

Greg

[Jad]

The last caller on Windtunnel made the best suggestion by far and converted me from blaming Bernie to Michelin and the teams. As noted, the problem was the outside sidewall and tread seperating at the limit on turn 13. Slowing down is not an option, no alternative tires were available, changing the tires would not work, BUT dialing in higher airpressure and lots of negative camber would have protected the sidewall and allowed a race. Michelin could have required (to pick random numbers) 25 lbs or air pressure and 3 degrees of camber. The cars would be slightly slower there, but faster than Jordan and Minardi and there would have been a bit of a race.

I still think a chicane and 1 lap penalty or a stop and go for all Michelin teams or SOMETHING better could have been done IF either side wanted to solve the problem. Bernie wanted to make and stand and get a better price for Indy, the other teams wanted to push Bernie and justify the WGP or whatever the new name would be. 80% political problem justified by 20% mechanical IMHO.

[paul hastings]

Formula One will have it's hands full trying to make the series less costly for the teams. After all one of the lures to F1 is it's cutting edge technology. Having more then one tire manufacturer pushes them to produce better products. I am surprised they have not changed the tire rule after Kimi's accident a couple races back. With all of the politics in F1 it may be a little while before we truly know who has the greatest fault for the lack of a true USGP. The French GP in a couple should be quite interesting.

Some of the solutions offered seem a bit bizarre. How could you send out a racing driver with a speed limit through certain corners? What do you think he is going to do when someone is coming to pass? Again, who truly knows what exactly went on.

[David J Marguglio]

Jad: I went through many sources for info yesterday, and somewhere in my searching I found documentation that indicated Michelin was aware of a problem on Friday and set about to rush another tire to Indy and did ship another batch of tires; however, they continued lab testing both tire types and were able to replicate the failure with both the old and new tires. They then issued a statement to the teams that they could only guarantee the tire for a maximum of 10 laps. The teams indicated that making 7 pit stops was not acceptable and the teams suggested the chicane that Michelin eventually specified in their letter to the FIA on Saturday night.

As I indicated in a previous post, I think that the M-teams were offered choices but for chose not to run in a less competitive manner. I like the following is an analogy posted on Rennlist by "CurtM":

The Bridgestone teams came to the race with the right but slower “shoes” for the race and the Michelin teams did not. If I showed up to a mountain endurance running race wearing sprinters track skins and everyone else was shod in proper but heavy hiking boots it would be patently unfair for me to say we need to run on a padded banked indoor track instead. The Michelins were not poor design, they were too light weight and aggressive for the track. That is too "competitive" or fast for the conditions. To change the track would only play into the advantage of the tire that was not correct for the known layout. The Michelins were faster other then when they failed from too much heat/load in T13. Yes, all would go through the chicane but the Michelins would have an advantage in doing so.

The latest conspiracy is that the M-shod teams have used safety as a red hearing to exert themselves against the FIA; the root of this issue may very well be the expiration of the Concord agreement. I think it is clear that regardless of the motivation, the fault lies not with FOM or FIA but with Michelin and the teams.

Don’t get me wrong, I still think that Bernie is a world-class a$$hole, and if you would like further proof of that, I submit his quote to ESPN last Friday regarding Danica Patrick’s success in IRL:

"Yep, she did a good job, didn’t she? Super. Didn’t think she was going to make it," Ecclestone said. Before leaving, Ecclestone made one more assessment about women racing with men. “You know I’ve got one of those wonderful ideas…women should be dressed in white like all the other domestic appliances.”

[harnishclan]

For me it is not about who is to blame (though I think the M teams are), it is who pays the cost. And they are all the people who spent time and money to get there expecting to see a race. There were plenty of options and solutions that would have allowed a safe and competitive race to go on and the M teams refused mostly to make a political statement. They didn't think long term, only short and in the end the price is long term. There are plenty of people who will not return to that race. So they had inferior equipment, Minardi has been racing with inferior equipment for decades yet they still show up. The M teams should have just raced to the limit of what their equipment would support and accepted the result. There is always going to be a team/driver with better equipment no matter what level. Just looking around one of our local events is hard evidence of that!

[MikeD]

Well, I probably haven't read as much about this as some of you. But what I do see is that this gave 7 teams a way to show Bernie and the FIA that they mean business. Bernie and the FIA have given very little credence to the formation of the GPWC. All I kept hearing from them over the last few years was that they didn't believe 9 teams could get together and agree on anything. Well, 7 of the 9 did that on Sunday (actually 9 of the 10 teams agreed to race with a chicane ). Michelin gave them the excuse to demostrate it, but it was surely posturing get Bernie and Max thinking. I suspect they both sat in their offices for the last 2 days saying nothing much more intelligible than "Oh crap!"

The whole tire thing was probably just a ruse to sacrafice the US market in a strategy to demostrate the power of the GPWC.

Get used to it. The field on Sunday had 4 cars more than will be in the field opening day 2008.

I was bummed to not have a race to watch. And I was bummed for those that paid so much to watch it in person. But I was actually happy to see 7 teams pull together and unite behind what they believed to be right, even if it meant looking like fools. Bravo McLaren, Williams, Toyota, Red Bull, Renault, Sauber, and BAR. Good on you!

P.S. This whole "one tire for the race" rule is stupid. It was stupid when they presented it last year. It was stupid when the season started. It was stupid when Kimi almost killed himself because he couldn't change the flat-spotted tire. It was stupid this past weekend. It is still stupid! Stupid! Stupid! Stupid! Nothing more than Stupid!

[David J Marguglio]

Mikey: Soooooo are we to interpret from your post that you find the one tire for the race rule is somewhat lacking of intellectual faculty?

[martinreinhardt]

At least the Porsche Supercup race must have been fun to watch at this US Formula "no one" Grandprix with Michelin tires http://content3.us.porsche.com/prod/motorsport/home.nsf/usaenglish/pmscrennberichte20050619_1

[MikeD]

Mikey: Soooooo are we to interpret from your post that you find the one tire for the race rule is somewhat lacking of intellectual faculty?

Yeah, somewhat...

[RickK]

While the one tire for the race rule is (to quote MikeD) "stupid", it does not preclude teams from changing tires when one has been damaged or deemed unsafe. Kimi could have come in for a front right replacement tire but he and McClaren chose not to give up the lead. Had he come in he probaly would have finished 3rd and only lost 4 points to Alonso instead of 10. That was stupid - lost more points and risked killing himself and others.