Rules proposals

[Greg Phillips]

Just a reminder that today is the last day to submit proposals for rule changes for 2006

Greg

[Steve Grosekemper]

Greg,
There were actually inconsistant dates listed on different web pages throughout the zone so we have extended the deadline until midnight 7-31.
So now what's your excuse?

Steve Grosekemper
Zone 8 Rules page editor

[bobbrand]

Here is the abbreviated take on rules. I have to remember to submit real comments before the close:

1) LW Flywheels in SS:
Call B.S.
In club racing, they upgrade you a class for this mod.
Plus it is very expensive, and potentially less-streetable upgrade -- not one you want to encourage to newbies.

2) 911 G to H
All for it. Give the BRI back to the people

3) Base 964 only in K
All for it. RSA went through that last year and we lived.

4) 13/13
Good.

5) Stock class back to Street tires
Holy cow. I would be tempted to run my car in stock class and save a lot of money. Great idea.
I know some people may have upgraded to R-compound last year because of the SS rules, but the fact is that without this rule change there is a greater group of people that have nowhere to go except deep into their pockets to run R-compound due to the no tolerance rules in SS. Come into P class for a mildly prepared car on sticky tires. KP welcomes all new comers, and you'd be amazed that there are not so many 20 point cars there anyway.

6) 4 Tier R-class
Too many trophies. Too many people competing in their own class. I think we need fewer classes and more competition. What comes next R1, R1-L, R2, R2-L,...

7) Off track weight
How about a rule that says you have to be a certain weight as raced. Then we could at least entertain the thought of bringing some scales down to the track and seeing what a stripped out 951 really weighs

LSD -- No exceptions
Hallelujah!

9) Negative weight points
Way too dangerous. Think of the wild car configurations you could come up. Steve could bolt on some weight and race in stock class. BRI would be out of control.

10) Driver weight bonus
No rewards for supersizing it

11) 1 point weight increments
Too complicated. Its hard enough trying to figure out what the car weighs within 50lbs. Besides, who says we should discourage removal of weight? Removal of weight is CHEAP. How do we discourage Quaiff diffs, custom-fabricated mountings for cup monoballs, mass airflow kits, and fiberglass fenders that house 275 width front tires...not to pick on any one person.

[ttweed]

2) 911 G to H
All for it. Give the BRI back to the people

Hey- I be a people, too!

TT

[Jad]

For some reason I felt a bit of hostility directed towards me, Mr. 4th place Why not pick on Mr. 2500 lbs Martin, or Mr 300 HP Marguglio, or Mr. zero aero drag wax-special racing oil Ibbetson? Leave poor little me alone, its not as if I have more room to improve the car as soon as I get some free time

Also, the 275's can fit under standard fenders, just look at Vinces Turbo S or John Rickards, they both run standard fenders and 275's.

Bring some scales, I really want to know the cars weight. I am guessing 2900 as the last time it was on the scales it weighed 3020, before the seats and doors with sunroof. That means I can take another 150 lbs and still be in KS - so don't make me hurt you Mr. Hoosiers, we can all spend the $$$$$$ and catch you if we want

[Curt]

This just in:

A black Porsche 944 Turbo has been stolen from Jad Duncan. Fast acting San Diego police found the car within 24 hours, but unfortunately it was completely stripped down to the bare shell. Officer Toro Caca commented, "unfortunately, Mr. Duncans car was recovered a little bit too late. Every single part that could be removed and sold has been taken. All that we are left with is the shell of a car."

When told his car had been recovered, Mr. Duncan commented, "there are several potential suspects we should be looking at in this case."

Mr. Duncan estimates that the current, adjusted weight of his 944 shell is now in the 3800 lb range.

[gulf911]

Can anyone tell me if any tire width points changes has been addressed? Or will AM be a one sided class again next year?

[Jad]

Curt/Dan

Hadn't heard from you for awhile, I thought maybe you were still trying to finish your timed laps at BW

[bobbrand]

I think the AM guys should look for some rule changes that would allow you to run an early car with 3.2 in FI. For example, ducktail spoilers should be free, and raised spindles should be free (or say 2 points for lowering a car and that is whether you change spindles, springs, bars, or whatever). How far are you over the 40 point limit anyway?

Or maybe the fat guy bonus will pass, and you guys can bulk up

Also, my post was equally biased against everyone

[Curt]

I agree with Bob on the ducktail thing and the raised spindles. If both of those were gone, I'd be at 40 or 42 points.

The ducktail thing is beyond ridiculous when the same amount of points are charged for it as for a 60" 3.8 RSR wing. One of them actually helps tremendously, the other helps the car look period correct. Seriously.

And the raised spindles? So I could buy real RSR spindles that allow for the same amount of lowering and pay $3000 for them and get zero points assessed, or I could have my stock spindles lowered by welding the spindles higher to help align my steering geometry for $500. Oops, 2 points for only spending $500, but 0 points for spending $3k to achieve the same thing.

This isn't exactly rocket surgery is it?

I still don't understand why we insist on trying to re-invent the wheel. Just use the PCA Club Racing rules for classes above street stock, or use the POC General Competition Rules. I can guarantee that both of those organizations have put alot more time into exploring the rules and squaring things up than Zone 8 has or can.

No disrespect to Steve G at all here. I wish that everyone on the rules committee had his experience and knowledge. Who else in Zone 8 is getting the autocross time and TT time that the SDR Region is getting? I'll make a list of the regions below that are:
















exactly!

[Curt]

Curt/Dan

Hadn't heard from you for awhile, I thought maybe you were still trying to finish your timed laps at BW

How does a preachers son fall so far from the tree? Jad, you are an evil, wicked, mean guy. Funny as he11, but mean. Yeah, I said he11, don't tell your dad, ok?

[Steve Grosekemper]

Dan "Caution-Boy" Andrews wrote-

Can anyone tell me if any tire width points changes has been addressed? Or will AM be a one sided class again next year?

Dan,
Can you read, use a browser?

The "Stop Dan's bitch-fest" is proposal #15. It has been posted for about 6 weeks.
I never cease to be amazed by the level of whinning about the rules by people who have the means to change them but choose to do nothing-....Dan!

Good thing there is someone in this club who cares enough to try to make changes for the better... Probably someone tired of listening to your whinning....Doesn't narrow the field down much does it!

(Notice the smilies!)

[Curt]

Steve,
That tire rule is going to require all of us in AM to take more points. The largest tire that can fit on the back of an RS, SC or Carrera flared car is a 275. We all are running 265 or 275's. Why not make 275 the largest tire allowed for that class? This would eliminate wide bodied cars with 330 series tires from running in the class.

I'm not sure if I've ever mentioned POC's rules before( ), but a 275 is the largest tire that is allowed in the V3 class. Not only would Roland never be allowed to compete with us directly in POC because of his engine size and weight of his car, his tires would be way outside the limits of the class too.

Here's the rub, I know I'm not the fastest guy in my class. However, it would be nice to know that if I drove my car very well, there was the potential for it to win it's class. My car with the right driver could have won any event in AM in 2004 and ANY year before that.

[Steve Grosekemper]

Curt,
Those are all really great points. Knowing your exquisite flair for communicating your thoughts to written format makes me all tingly inside just waiting to read your proposal.... Or we can just start calling you Dan-II.


P.S.
I promised myself that I would refrain from making any comments about how your car has the potential to win AM this year... and I am sticking to it....

[gulf911]

Dan "Caution-Boy" Andrews wrote-

Can anyone tell me if any tire width points changes has been addressed? Or will AM be a one sided class again next year?

Dan,
Can you read, use a browser?

The "Stop Dan's bitch-fest" is proposal #15. It has been posted for about 6 weeks.
I never cease to be amazed by the level of whinning about the rules by people who have the means to change them but choose to do nothing-....Dan!

Good thing there is someone in this club who cares enough to try to make changes for the better... Probably someone tired of listening to your whinning....Doesn't narrow the field down much does it!

(Notice the smilies!)

It is so easy to ruffle your feathers...

Please don't single me out for the bitch fest, as all 'actual' AM cars have voiced a concern...

I remember you telling me a while back there was already a tire mod to the rules, I just needed to know what they were. I will stop being lazy and check #15. Happy??

xxxxooo
Dan