Time Trial resuslts are posted here.......

[Curt]

Buttonwillow certainly has its hazards, but virtually all tracks do. I think the worst thing about BW is the soil is so soft that if you get sideways your chances of rolling are greater than if the soil was firmer. Particularly at speed. All those names in the parking area are there for a reason. As far as bus stop claiming the two lives last year, in my opinion, that was caused by pure stupidity, not by that section of the track being hazardous.

Bottom line in my opinion is you can (and should) be able to learn something from most any track, so while I like some better than others, I try to drive as many as I can.

What is the reason for those names on the plaques in the parking area at Buttonwillow? When we first got there I thought it meant something that we don't like to think about, but there are WAY too many plaques to signify fatalities at that track. If you walked all around the parking area, there are at least 25-30 of those memorial plaques and near each one was a freshly planted tree. I think those have to be some sort of sponsor a tree program in memory of a racer who has passed away, not necessarily from racing. At least that is what I told myself to feel better about going onto the track. Anyone know exactly what the story is on those plaques at BW?

[MVZ944T]

Kary,

Don't mis understand me. I agree that everyone has the tracks they like and don't like. Personally, I would not mind seeing some variations in WSIR such as using the inner area between 7 and 8 but I doubt the track would spend the money to build it. I agree it can be a bit boring at times, but I guess you are correct that the car you drive will make a difference in what track suits you best. It would be nice to be able to put a bit of varyation in the track kind of like BW. I found Pahrump not too much to my liking mainly as it seemed like my gearing was just way off, but also I think there are a couple of safety issues with the track I would like to see addressed (concrete walls). Having said all that I have to agree with Steve, I had a ton of fun out there this weekend, heat and all. But then, I try to have as much fun as I can doing this sport any time I do it. At my age it won't last forever. I just wish I had the funds to do it at least every other week, but that is a pipe dream, although a nice one. Right now, I can't wait to get to Thunderhill in October and back out on Fontana.

Lastly, I would have to say that I think the comraderie of our group is really pretty neat, and also as a whole, this past year has seen a huge improvment in driving skills and lap times from virtually everyone. Even John! Damn John, I just had to through that in!

On the subject of BW, maybe I was making an assumption about the plaques.

[JHPGT3]

Kary,
You've confused me. How could anything (in this case, WSIR) be "boring and dangerous". I don't know about you, but for most people, these two adjectives would not be used to describe the same item. Explain a little more, please.
The only thing I don't hold in high regard about Willow is it's a 2 gear track with very little shifting required. So, that skill is not one that is tested much at Willow.
But, on the other side of the coin, you have the very high speeds throughout; you have our only major elevation change in SoCal/Nev.,AZ; you have a uniquely fast sweeper in #2 that doesn't exist in any other tracks that I've been to; #9 is certainly unique and a tester; and finally, you have wash basins that never have enough soap!!
I submit (and maybe Bernie B. can chime in on this one) that, in most cases, everyone's favorite track is the one where they do the best. If one is disappointed in one's performance, one looks less favorably on the track and finds ways to criticize it.
In my own case, I have not been a fan of WSIR (though I have enjoyed The Streets) until this week-end when I fell in love with it and I can't wait to get back to do better. In my case, all it took was some success (by my own standard) and my viewpoint completely changed!!
I think all the tracks we use are interesting and challenging in different ways and viva la difference!
And Mike, I have to agree with you about the cameraderie and just being together with a group you enjoy , doing your favorite thing wherever that may be. I flew down from Idaho mainly to support the Club and see all you speed demons. I was not looking forward to WSIR in 105 deg' heat and also because I haven't done real well there in the past.
Now all I'm thinkin' is, who cares about the heat and when are we going back??????

[kary]

Kary,
Lastly, I would have to say that I think the comraderie of our group is really pretty neat, and also as a whole, this past year has seen a huge improvment in driving skills and lap times from virtually everyone. Even John! Damn John, I just had to through that in!

Mike, I definitely agree, that is one of the key reasons as I mentioned in an earlier post why I came, to support our series and see folks. Great club members and a great series!

[kary]

Kary,
You've confused me. How could anything (in this case, WSIR) be "boring and dangerous". I don't know about you, but for most people, these two adjectives would not be used to describe the same item. Explain a little more, please.

John these words are exclusive, there are parts of the track that are just boring to drive and represent a lack of skill or challenge. There are parts of the track that are dangerous if you want a good time, if not no big deal.

Secondly, You mentioned that some tracks are bad when someone does poorly. Jad also mentioned this about my performance, yet I never mentioned this nor do I feel I had a bad performance (I did mess up my second timed run lap), but I posted a respectable time, at least in my opinion. I do not feel this was a reason or has entered into my reasoning about my feelings about this track.

As far a unique sweeper being only at WSIR, did you forget about riverside at BW, the two sweepers at Pahrump, Laguna turn 9 down the hill sweeper, Sears point carousel down the hill, the Speedway sweeper on the front straight from the infield, turn 1 and 2 ? My there are lots of them, nothing unique about WSIR turn 2.

Lastly, I guess I will have to defer to your wisdom John

[JHPGT3]

Kary,
You've confused me. How could anything (in this case, WSIR) be "boring and dangerous". I don't know about you, but for most people, these two adjectives would not be used to describe the same item. Explain a little more, please.

John these words are exclusive, there are parts of the track that are just boring to drive and represent a lack of skill or challenge. There are parts of the track that are dangerous if you want a good time, if not no big deal.

Secondly, You mentioned that some tracks are bad when someone does poorly. Jad also mentioned this about my performance, yet I never mentioned this nor do I feel I had a bad performance (I did mess up my second timed run lap), but I posted a respectable time, at least in my opinion. I do not feel this was a reason or has entered into my reasoning about my feelings about this track.

As far a unique sweeper being only at WSIR, did you forget about riverside at BW, the two sweepers at Pahrump, Laguna turn 9 down the hill sweeper, Sears point carousel down the hill, the Speedway sweeper on the front straight from the infield, turn 1 and 2 ? My there are lots of them, nothing unique about WSIR turn 2.

Lastly, I guess I will have to defer to your wisdom John

Well, I am certainly glad you're learning to respect your elders
Seriously, I still disagree with you about Willow being "boring". We all want "good times". How often do we drive at 80%? The only thing boring at Willow if you're driving to the max would be the front straight, but you could say that about any tracks front straight, right?. If you are trying for a "good time", except for the front straight, do you really find any other portion of Willow "boring". I sure don't! But I don't have the driving experience you do so what might be boring for you (e.g. turn #2 at 110 mph), might be frightening for me!! OK, how about stimulating? In fact, turns #1-9 are all very stimulating for me taken at TT speeds. Let me get this striaght, you're saying that at TT speeds, you find parts of the track (excluding the front straight) "boring"? You've gotta tell me where you feel "bored" at Willow during the TT!
Regarding "sweepers", I still think #2 at Willow is much more than anything you've mentioned. C'mon, you gonna compare #2 to anything at Pahrump? Riverside is over and done with in a few seconds. To me, you see the apex at Riverside within a couple of seconds of entry whereas #2 goes on and on and on. It's a much bigger turn. Same comment about CS. You can't be serious comparing #2 at WSIR to that little sweeper in the infield at CS! C'mon!!

[ajackson]

I heard a lot of people refer to Big Willow as the track that is quick to learn but hard to master.

In any case, talking about what tracks people like and don't like is kindof like talking about what food people like. There are some foods that I just don't like. I can try to explain it to you, but even if you don't get it or you like it personally, I just don't.

Sounds like Kary just doesn't like Big Willow. Could be that he thinks it is too salty or maybe it is not spicey enough. Either way, something tells him, "this isn't my favorite, I have more fun at other tracks."

[kary]

I heard a lot of people refer to Big Willow as the track that is quick to learn but hard to master.

In any case, talking about what tracks people like and don't like is kindof like talking about what food people like. There are some foods that I just don't like. I can try to explain it to you, but even if you don't get it or you like it personally, I just don't.

Sounds like Kary just doesn't like Big Willow. Could be that he thinks it is too salty or maybe it is not spicey enough. Either way, something tells him, "this isn't my favorite, I have more fun at other tracks."

You are right Alan, the food just is not right there. Too bland really, and the tire wear is uneven. Could I make that track fun if I tried, maybe, but there is nothing spicey about that track, just the danger factor which is really not that fun, at least for me.

John, John, John, I think you are most happy because you are now in the top ten given your car If others were driving your car then you....well you know what I mean But I am glad you are having fun there!!!

[Steve Grosekemper]

I heard a lot of people refer to Big Willow as the track that is quick to learn but hard to master.

In any case, talking about what tracks people like and don't like is kindof like talking about what food people like. There are some foods that I just don't like. I can try to explain it to you, but even if you don't get it or you like it personally, I just don't.

Sounds like Kary just doesn't like Big Willow. Could be that he thinks it is too salty or maybe it is not spicey enough. Either way, something tells him, "this isn't my favorite, I have more fun at other tracks."

You are right Alan, the food just is not right there. Too bland really, and the tire wear is uneven. Could I make that track fun if I tried, maybe, but there is nothing spicey about that track, just the danger factor which is really not that fun, at least for me.

John, John, John, I think you are most happy because you are now in the top ten given your car If others were driving your car then you....well you know what I mean But I am glad you are having fun there!!!

Top ten out of 25 cars??? In a clearly 1:27 capable car?? Again, isn't that kind of like bragging about beating up a girlscout for her cookie money?

You better stick to Brownies John...

Let's see what happens at Pahrump!!

Damn Kids! They got no respect for thier elders!

[JHPGT3]

Oh gosh, we're back to smack now?
Kary, you didn't answer any of my questions about Willow and instead resorted to personal attacks --what happened to your debating skills or you ability to analyze your own comments? Did they go down the tubes like you and your 993 at Willow?
And Steve, I'll go back to the Brownies if you stop sniffing that silicon sealer! You know so darn much about my new car, much more than I (e.g. it's 1000 lbs. lighter than Kary's car; it's capable of 1:27 etc.). I have never bragged about being Top 10 (or Top 5), either in the past or this time. That's you guys talking, not me!However, it seems like with all the time and money and expertise you've put into your car, you really shoulda beaten an Old Man on Medicare, in a relatively unfamiliar car by more than 1.5 seconds! I think I'll join Bob Ehrman and the two of us will kick your a** next time in both our cars.
Now can't we all just get along?

[kary]

Oh gosh, we're back to smack now?
Kary, you didn't answer any of my questions about Willow and instead resorted to personal attacks --what happened to your debating skills or you ability to analyze your own comments? Did they go down the tubes like you and your 993 at Willow?
And Steve, I'll go back to the Brownies if you stop sniffing that silicon sealer! You know so darn much about my new car, much more than I (e.g. it's 1000 lbs. lighter than Kary's car; it's capable of 1:27 etc.). I have never bragged about being Top 10 (or Top 5), either in the past or this time. That's you guys talking, not me!However, it seems like with all the time and money and expertise you've put into your car, you really shoulda beaten an Old Man on Medicare, in a relatively unfamiliar car by more than 1.5 seconds! I think I'll join Bob Ehrman and the two of us will kick your a** next time in both our cars.
Now can't we all just get along?

John, which part of your questions did not not answer? Or was it you did not like my answer ? . Or maybe you forgot what you read?

Either way when we do get on a track that requires skill, like what happened at buttonwillow, I know who will get kicked even if the cars are not even
No bug deal on my part, you and others are the ones trying to convince me that Willow is a good track, I guess that is why all the pro drivers run their series there, NOT!

[JHPGT3]

[quote="kary"]Or maybe you forgot what you read?


Now that's funny!! OK, enough of this smack. It's a beautiful morning here in north Idaho looking out on the lake. I'm gonna get on my jetski now and visualize passing you guys!!!

[Steve Grosekemper]

Oh gosh, we're back to smack now?
Kary, you didn't answer any of my questions about Willow and instead resorted to personal attacks --what happened to your debating skills or you ability to analyze your own comments? Did they go down the tubes like you and your 993 at Willow?
And Steve, I'll go back to the Brownies if you stop sniffing that silicon sealer! You know so darn much about my new car, much more than I (e.g. it's 1000 lbs. lighter than Kary's car; it's capable of 1:27 etc.). I have never bragged about being Top 10 (or Top 5), either in the past or this time. That's you guys talking, not me!However, it seems like with all the time and money and expertise you've put into your car, you really shoulda beaten an Old Man on Medicare, in a relatively unfamiliar car by more than 1.5 seconds! I think I'll join Bob Ehrman and the two of us will kick your a** next time in both our cars.
Now can't we all just get along?

John,
Thanks for the sealer but I didn't get to sniff a bit of it! I instructed Stacy Smith on the proper useage of the product and went out to run some final laps.

I don't mean to ruffle your feathers (Well maybe ) but I will never have a car that pretty and an just jealous of all you Simone creation owners.

You said 2250lbs. Saturday and the cars says POC VO on the side and POC VO track record is 1:25.080 so I am giving you a 2-second benefit of the doubt.


Took me several years to become competitive and there are always fast cars out there so we must remember this is all just for fun! So are we having fun yet?

[JHPGT3]

Steve,
It's actually worse than you think with POC in that I have to run in the Red run group in practice sessions with all the guys who are doing 18s, 19s and below :25. I told Jeff Melnick I wanted to run in the Orange group beacuse I don't want to spend my entire track time looking in my rear view mirrors, but he said "no can do", "just get faster"!!. So, you don't have to worry about about my getting some humility - I believe on a normal temp. day I will do 1:30 and I'll still be the slowest guy on the track!!
And, yes, we ARE having fun here (I think)
Have a great summer and I'm looking forward to seeing you in the Fall.

[Gary Burch]

Big Willow was my very first track experience. And what an experience, 104*, an off track in #9, and never getting the top section right. I thought now that I have done it I won't have to do it again.

Especially after driving Streets. I love that track, cw or ccw. I really like the blind chicane after the bowl going clockwise. It is totally suited to my car and as long as you stay on the pavement it is pretty easy on it.

But, after reading this discussion I am actually looking forward to going back to Big Willow. Just not in the dead of summer.