new 997 - concerns

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new 997 - concerns

Postby Jad on Wed Aug 11, 2004 8:44 am

I was curious if anyone has any real experience or knowledge about the 997? Everything I have read so far says it is great, but they are still in the pure PR phase articles where every car is considered great. The real reviews come out in a month or two.

The Carrera S seems like a step in the right direction, but as far as I can tell, the base Carrera is a slight step backwards??? It has 5-10 more HP, but weighs more, thus offering no improvement in performance. Also, the headlights to me look 90's retro? Is there such a thing? I know some like the new look, but am curious to how many (all 993 owners will, but what about others?)

I hope I am wrong and there is something hidden under the standard PSM and added weight, otherwise, horrors :x the new C6 Corvette may finally be a real competitor. Please tell me I am wrong and why the average person is going to buy a Carrera versus a 996 or Vette. It seems, the Carrera S should be the base 997, but they wanted to justify a $10k price increase somehow.
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Postby David J Marguglio on Wed Aug 11, 2004 11:19 am

I agree, I have been whining for years that Porsche does not seem to want to keep up with the HP inflation that seems prevelant in the upper end market. And as you correctly pointed out, even the lower market (corvette) is catching up. I drove last years Z06 at the Chevy drive boondoggle/miniautocross and found it to be fastastically quick and suprisingly nimble. With similar power and suspension, now the base corvette will perform that well? I cant image what the next iteration of the Z06 will be like (rumor has it 500+HP). Anyway, back to P-cars.

I was truly expecting more from the 997. The esthetics are indeed pleasing, but the performance is comparable to the 1999 996. Give me a break! Is Porsche’s answer to the demand for performance that you must pay the premium for the GT3? I think the ‘S’ would have made a good base model at the base model point (perhaps sans adjustable suspension) but I not moved to spend the extra money for it. For the money they are asking for the S you might as well get the GT3.

Whatever happened to the less weight, less features, more performance, less money equation? Oh yes, that was the RS America. By the way, does anyone know where I can find one?
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Postby MikeD on Wed Aug 11, 2004 11:49 am

Not to burst anyone's bubble, but isn't the point of a Porsche to be under-powered and still kick the c#@p out of the Chevy's and Ford's? Of course the point was also to be light and nimble and that's not the 996 (or 997 apparently) so I'm not sure what my point is...

We also know that Porsche is quite out to lunch logically anyway as they: A) fell into the trap of mainstream marketing by manufacturing an SUV, and B) do not want to give the Boxster the power it deserves because they are afraid it may overtake the 911 in the market place. In my opinion these are not indicative of the most intelligent decisions Porsche has ever made.

Just my $0.02.
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Postby Jad on Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:20 pm

I was not trying to imply HP is everything, as it certainly is not, but as you said, Porsche use to have a several hundred pound advantage over the competition. Not true anymore and I THINK the Chevy magnetic fluid adjustable suspension might even be better than the generic 997 adjustable suspension. With all the computer control etc, where exactly is the Porsche going to gain on the Chevy? The braking advantage, suspension advantage and engine flexibility that use to make up for HP numbers, seem to be going away.

On the otherhand, the 911 being given an unfair advantage over the superior design of the little sibling is nothing new. The 914-6 could have been better, the 944 Turbo S WAS better and the Boxster could be as well. It hasn't hurt them in the past and the Cayenne is selling well, so hopefully Porsche knows something we don't as on the surface it isn't looking as good as I would hope. An interesting note in a magazine said it can't be a good sign that the 911 in the highest demand, is the slowest 911, the C4S cab tiptronic. From a personal standpoint, I see no reason to have more HP in my 996. As a street car, 320 hp is more than adequate, but I am in the minority. I also like the smallest engine available in SUV's and trucks as long as it tows enough. Many people buy the HP number even if they never use it. The number of sedans with 400+hp is ridiculous. Why does anyone need/want that much HP in a sedan for the street???

Oh well, off to work on my 13 hp kart that can take most 400+ hp sedans at an AX..... Come on Porsche - think Elise, not BMW/Corvette.
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Postby David J Marguglio on Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:33 pm

Of course you are right about not needing more power on the street, but my request is predicated on the assumption that the car will continue to be heavy and get heavier. With all of the crap that is now required or ordered on a car: 12 airbags, traction control, yaw control, coffee spill control, etc. the only way to go is up (with the HP that is) to try to maintain the power/weight. For me, I would rather have 300 less lbs. than 50 more hp, but then I too am in the minority.
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Postby kary on Wed Aug 11, 2004 2:35 pm

Guys, as I stated in another thread, where is the 997 Cup Car. That should be street legal. Great HP/Weight ratio and you don't have to worry about spilling any liquids because there is no where to put them (except for that blasted water radiator :evil: )
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Postby MikeD on Wed Aug 11, 2004 3:01 pm

Well, they've got a picture of one over on flat-6.net, but I suspect you are itching for a real one?

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What?

Postby David J Marguglio on Wed Aug 11, 2004 3:27 pm

Kary, why would you think that it would be street legal? The current cup cars aren't.
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Postby martinreinhardt on Wed Aug 11, 2004 3:57 pm

The 997 GT3 RS
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will be street legal in Europe just as the 996 GT3 RS is. I think Porsche decided that the GT3 is the real deal now.

:?: 964, 964 RS, 964 CUP :roll: ->> GT3, GT3 RS, GT3 CUP :?: :idea:
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Postby MikeD on Wed Aug 11, 2004 4:32 pm

OK, I'm confused. I thought it was GT3, GT3 Cup, the GT3 RS in 2003 and GT3, GT3 Cup, GT3 RSR in 2004. I guess its different on the other side of the pond ;).
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Postby kary on Wed Aug 11, 2004 4:56 pm

As Martin pointed out the GT3RS is legal on the street in Europe so why not have a cup car legal?
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Postby martinreinhardt on Wed Aug 11, 2004 6:42 pm

Oh that's right there is a GT3 RSR also (GT3, CS, RS, RSR, CUP), hmm I am getting a little confused with the RSR's and the CUP's aren't they the same?

I know as a fact that 964 CUP cars can be made street legal in Europe, because I am interested in one that is street legal and has raced in the series.

The new CUP cars are a bit extreme for the streets with the UFO style wings etc :shock: , I can see how they could be a danger for a pedestrian :lol:
Last edited by martinreinhardt on Thu Aug 12, 2004 11:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby RickK on Wed Aug 11, 2004 6:59 pm

I believe for street cars it is 996 > GT3 >GT3RS in Europe. For the race cars it is GT3 Cup > GT3 RS/RSR (depending on the year). In terms of performance the RS is definitely the faster, higher powered, lighter weight, more aero on the car version compared to the Cup cars.
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Postby Burl East on Wed Aug 11, 2004 8:47 pm

Martin,

That picture posted is great. Need to get on the list for that :roll: assuming they m,ake it ans sell it here.
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Postby David J Marguglio on Thu Aug 12, 2004 11:12 am

Rick hit the nail on the head. They are two completely different cars. In the US (not sure about EU) they are sold through different companies. The street cars 996, GT3, GT2, etc. are sold through PCNA and the race cars GT3 Cup and GT3 RSR (R was the first 996 based race car, RS was an update, RSR is the current) are sold exclusively through Porsche Motorsports in Orange County (next to Andial if you're looking). Good luck getting a car through Motorsports though, they wont take your money unless you are a known team. Even if they do, you are required to sign a contract with them the says that you will have all of your required rebuilds (every 30 hours) done at their shop. The rebuilds for the RSR cost $20k at 30 hours, $30k 30 hours later, then $40k at 90 hours, then they repeat. I think it is slightly (not much) less for the Cup engine. Anyway, you are welcome to buy them used and then you forgo the contract with Motorsports. If you really wanted to know.
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