new 997 - concerns

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Postby MikeD on Mon Aug 16, 2004 4:28 pm

David J Marguglio wrote:...There is often a big difference between what the blue book (or any book) says something is worth and how they are actually selling.


edmunds.com has this thing called TMV (True Market Value). Which is supposed to be the actual price people are paying (and receiving) for the car. If memory serves me correctly it's based on the sales prices reported by the DMV. I've never actually studied it accuracy but the prices reported seem decent enough.
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Postby kary on Mon Aug 16, 2004 5:11 pm

Mike, David,

Don't confuse Jad about what is really going on in the world of Porsche used car sales :lol:

Jad, you certainly have an interesting persepctive. The one that is most impressive to me is that I am the only one you know that tracks a 993, yet you seem to know all the values of everything. A veteran knows when they don't know and learns. :P

:lol: :banghead: :lol: I think there is a name for someone who laughs as they keep incurring pain....I am not sure why I keep inducing pain to myself. :roll:
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Postby rss996 on Tue Aug 17, 2004 9:14 am

Problem is that DMV figures will be not quite accurate because of people fibbing on sales price to pay lower reg fee....

I know quite a few people who think the 993 is "ugly" and these people own some nice exotics...I much prefer the earlier 911's over the looks of the 993... But they are all pretty cool in one way or another.
You must remember that "most" people buy the car because of looks and the way it makes them feel about themselves. PCA er's buy and own because they are into the driving experience of Porsche.

GT Purely Porsche magazine this month has an article on 993s and they state that it does not come close to 996 in anyway with the driving characteristics...It does say that the 996 lacks the "soul" of an aircooled 911...and thats all that the 993 has going for it in my book...
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Postby rss996 on Tue Aug 17, 2004 9:19 am

If they had made as many 993's as 996's would we be even having this pricing discussion? It all boils down to supply and demand....
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Postby David J Marguglio on Tue Aug 17, 2004 10:30 am

Good point rss, but I am quite sure that no one on this board would partake in anything so nefarious as fibbing to the DMV. :shock: In any case, Mike the “TMV” of my boxster through Edmunds is even highter: $29,051 private party and $32,912 retail. And if any values my car based on True Market Value (or any other book value) I will happily sell them my boxster today for $10,000 off retail! Any takers?
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Postby MikeD on Tue Aug 17, 2004 10:40 am

If I had the cash Dave, I would happily buy your Boxster for $19K so I could go out and beat up on Ethan D. with a clear conscience.
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Postby kary on Tue Aug 17, 2004 10:50 am

rss996 wrote:If they had made as many 993's as 996's would we be even having this pricing discussion? It all boils down to supply and demand....


In an earlier post on this thread I asked the same thing in the opposite direction. There are many more 996's than 993's yet the pricing (depending upon how you figure it) is fairly close. So clearly supply and demand play into this, but if the 993 is so bad and the 996 is so superior then why are the prices really up as high as they are for the 993? Could it be the soul of the car? If soul has nothing to do with it, then no one would want a 993; however they sell rather quickly from the dozens of folks I converse with on Rennlist.
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Postby Jad on Wed Aug 18, 2004 11:31 am

Last post on this. I am not saying the 993 is a bad car, just that the 996 is better in many ways and your statement to an owner of a 996 that one ride in your car would show him how bad his is and that all the veterans of the club agree with you, was way wrong. 996's are owned by many 'veterans' such as Vince, Jack, Paul Young, myself and others that paid significantly more for a 996 than they had to for a 993.

There are fewer 993's and fewer people that want them, thus supply and demand are in line as is the pricing with a 996 being a little more than a 993 which is a little more than a 964, which is more than a Carrera, which is more than an SC etc. My point is that the 993 is not an omnipotent car that everyone dreams of owning or would be converted with a quick ride. The 911 has evolved and improved for a long time and is continuing to do so. I started the thread to see if the 997 was an evolution or if you needed the 997S to really get a significant improvement which looks to be the case from the little useful information that I have seen.

Now, any fun Neptune vs Airhead trash talk elsewhere on the forum :D
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Postby David J Marguglio on Wed Aug 18, 2004 2:06 pm

Soooooo....how bout that 997?! :lol:
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Postby Curt on Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:31 pm

Yeah, but Kary's car STILL looks better, and it........










wait for it.............










wait for it............













wait for it.............












IT HAS A FREAKING DRY SUMP, BECAUSE IT IS A PORSCHE!
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Postby kary on Wed Aug 18, 2004 10:16 pm

kary wrote:Robert, you make some real good points about the great people in the club and the reasons people buy Porsche's. These cars are really capable of far more than most can even understand.

I would add there is a reason the vet's "bash" the street 996 in terms of it being a track car. Liking the looks or not is has little to do with the true feel, sound, and smells of a Porsche!

You can obviously guess where I land on this topic, but maybe one day you could ride along with me in my car. It might change your perspective. Anything is possible!


Just thought I would repost what I said to rss996 since Jad seems to think that I told him that one ride in my car would show him how crappy his car is. I do not think what I wrote says that considering I offered a ride and used the word "might change your perspective", but I guess that depends upon the filter one applies to the words.... :roll: I guess this thread got too long to recall what I said or even to look up what was said, oh well!

Also note the other bold phrase, using a 996 as a track car. I have seen far more 996's go to the track and then retire because of issues particularly the early 996's. I do not mean retire at an event but that the owners retired the car from track events because it was not really trackable/reliable. But then that is just my opinion...wait, no that is not just my opinion, that is what I have experienced over the past 4 years...remember I am talking about tacking cars not driving them on the street.

Off to Laguna where I will be the only 993 on the track...well except for the other ones that will be joining me :lol:


P.S. WELL SAID CURT :beerchug:
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