new 997 - concerns

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Postby martinreinhardt on Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:11 pm

It is the same in europe, all special orders and race cars come from Porsche Motorsport. I beileve Weissach (D) that includes the street legal GT3 ClubSport and GT3 RS. Race cars at least in the early 90's did require the buyer to be in a serie and in posession of a valid racer license.
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Postby rss996 on Thu Aug 12, 2004 8:30 pm

I am new to Porsche ownership and love my 996...I agree with Jad, I do not think it needs more horsepower, just lighter with great handling characteristics.I can have a blast up in the hills and still take the wife out in it once in a while!

The problem is that there are too many 400+ sedans out there and a bunch of people driving them who down right scare me. I test drove an E55 and that car will kill someone who steps on the gas while on their cell phone or drinking their Starbucks.

I feel Porsche is trying to give people a mix of luxury and performance, which is very hard to do.

The best thing about Porsche hat I have seen since being in the club (one year - driving school and 4 auto x's) is that all models seem to have a place and a purpose.

I am tired of everyone bashing the 996 and saying its about time they went back to the 911's real roots...I could have bought a 993 but thought they were ugly and did not "love" the looks of a 911 until the 996. Lets wait and see the real reviews of owners over the next 6 months and then start bashing the 996...

Just my .02

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Postby kary on Thu Aug 12, 2004 8:43 pm

rss996 wrote:I am tired of everyone bashing the 996 and saying its about time they went back to the 911's real roots...I could have bought a 993 but thought they were ugly and did not "love" the looks of a 911 until the 996. Lets wait and see the real reviews of owners over the next 6 months and then start bashing the 996...
Robert


Robert, did you ever drive a 993?
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Postby rss996 on Thu Aug 12, 2004 8:51 pm

Yes, my best friend had a 964 and a new 993s...It was nice but I did not care for the interior at all. I do wish I had driven it like I am learning to drive my 996, then i might have a better idea of performance comparison.

Most people who buy Porsche's do not know how to drive them properly and just buy them as a status symbol. I bought mine because I always wanted a sports car and time was right with 996 fitting my tastes. I had no idea how to drive a car properly especially a rear engine porsche! i am learning a ton and getting better with every event.

I appreciate all the nice instructors I have had - Burl - Neil - Keith - Ralph...This club makes new people feel welcome and doe not scare them off by making them feel insuperior or stupid.

Thanks for any and all advice from the vets-- better known as you old guys!!!LOL...

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Postby kary on Thu Aug 12, 2004 9:05 pm

Robert, you make some real good points about the great people in the club and the reasons people buy Porsche's. These cars are really capable of far more than most can even understand.

I would add there is a reason the vet's "bash" the street 996 in terms of it being a track car. Liking the looks or not is has little to do with the true feel, sound, and smells of a Porsche!

You can obviously guess where I land on this topic, but maybe one day you could ride along with me in my car. It might change your perspective. Anything is possible!
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Postby Bob Gagnon on Thu Aug 12, 2004 9:11 pm

I thought the family tree went :

GT3>GT3 Cup (race variant)

GT3>GT3 RS>GT3RSR (race variant)

The GT3 RS was created to FIA homogate the hollow, stronger, lighter, cast alloy suspension uprights (also lowered mounting points, double clamp bolted and 6 bolts to hold the wheel bearing instead of 4) and also the cylinder head changes needed to make a GT3RSR (smaller spark plug thread diameter and extra material for porting).

The GT3 Cup uses the same suspension uprights as the normal GT3, not the ones in the GT3RS.

The GT3RS is (or at least was) generally available at dealers in Europe.

The GT3 Cup and GT3 RSR are available through Porsche Motorsport only in both Europe and USA, although some dealers in Europe with connections will do the deal.

I understand the 997 uses hollow, cast aluminum uprights similar to a GT3RS BTW :beerchug:
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Postby Jad on Thu Aug 12, 2004 10:07 pm

As a 'veteran' of this club, I definitely drove many 993's before buying my 996 and there was no decision for me. The 996 was better in every way. A few people may believe the 993 is more reliable on the track, but everyone agrees the 996 is faster (in similar prep). I don't see anyone running 993's competitively in any series though a few backmarkers still drive them. I have owned 10-15 different Porsches and the 996 is clearly the fastest, smoothest and easiest to drive, though the aircooled engine does sound better at times, annoyingly loud at others. :wink:

Robert, as Kary is the only person I can think of with a 993 that is ever tracked, don't let his personal bias sway you, you bought the faster, smoother, safer car even if it doesn't sound, smell or feel like his personal idea of what a Porsche is. Apparently Porsche went out of business 6 years ago, though the real die hards say that happened with the introduction of the 911 as the 356 was the REAL Porsche. Wasn't the 993 the worst selling of all the major Porsche models or was it ahead of the 964? The 993 is a great car and many people like it, but the majority believe the 996 is even better - including all professional racers.

I am going to be off racing for a few days, sorry to miss where this is going to go :banghead:
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Postby kary on Thu Aug 12, 2004 10:26 pm

Jad, why not tell us what you really think? Having a bad day :lol:

Your arguments are not really on the mark as the pro's like the racing GT3's not the street 996's. I never talked about speed as having anything to do with the discussion, neither did Robert. Smoothness is about the driver not the car. Perhaps you have a different view these days in your four seat 911 :lol: I think they make a real 4 seater called the Cayenne last I checked!

As we have had this discussion before on this forum, the population will vote with their feet by the valuation of the cars over the years. It has already begun when I can buy a 996 for the same price as a 993 in similar condition. Don't shoot the messenger here, I did not set the market prices! It is simply an indication of what the population likes and does not like contrary to your statement about the "majority". If the majority liked the 996 the prices would certainly be up, or are you saying because they produced so many 996's you feel there is a majority compared to the lower production numbers of the 993?

It is always interesting how people confuse things and bring up irrelevant points to a persons post.

I'll be up at Laguna next weekend with POC in the only 993 that has ever been tracked (at least that you know of, you need to get out more Jad)....

BTW, you'll catch up with the thread later as it will still be here when you return. Hope your racing weekend is fun!
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Postby rss996 on Thu Aug 12, 2004 10:51 pm

The passion is what makes this club so interesting...

I think there are more factors than we can even take into account as to 993 vs. 996...Economy in most of the 90's=bad, 993 sales in the toilet...1999 economy=good and 996 sells like hot cakes...on and on and on...Not to sound like a politician, I think both cars are what they are and represent their place in time so who's to say one is better than the other. I can tell you that the younger the person the more likely they are to like the newer car with more goodies and thats what Porsche is counting on!

Taking the track out of the equation for a second a stock street 996 vs. stockstreet 993? Who wins with equal driver? That said, most people in this club are in the minority from the rest of society in what they want out of their Porsche. We all want to race and thats obviously not where Porsche is going to make their bottom line fat.

Anyway, they can go into SUV and sedan markets for all I care ,as long as they continue to make an awesome 911- who cares!

If I want a sedan, I'll buy a Mercedes with a proven track record(well before the Daimler merger) and If I want an SUV I'll look at the quality of a Japanese company...But if I want a fast sports car than can whoop *** where it counts, I'll hopefully always look to Porsche!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Postby glenn_993 on Fri Aug 13, 2004 7:59 am

Kary,

Soon you won't be the only 993 on the track. It might have to wait until I finish cleaning up the competition in the MS A-X class. See you all at Spring Mountain.
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Postby kary on Fri Aug 13, 2004 11:12 am

Woowwww, there are two 993's in the entire world on the race track :lol:

Glenn, looking forward to running with you!
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Postby David J Marguglio on Fri Aug 13, 2004 12:14 pm

Bob, you lost me going back and forth from the GT3RS street car and the GT3RS(R) race car. As you, better than most, already know the base 996 street car little in common with the race variant. Ergo...

Jad, pros like driving the 996-based race cars because Porsche doesnt support the 993-based race cars anymore. Just ask Albert Loredo. When the 996-based cars were first becoming available, the 993-based RSR's were indeed faster. Motorsports reps were (supposedly) walking around to RSR's and hooking up to their computers and detuning the 993-based cars. Hard to believe? Ask anyone that compaigned an RSR at the time.

Now few would argue that the current version of the race car is not a FAR superior car to the last 993-based car, but then it has had another 7 years of development (a lifetime in racing).

But wasnt the real question which was the better street car? Well, that depends on how you define better. Which is faster? Which is more auraly (not orally Dan) satisfying? Which is the better $ value? Which scores more babes/dudes (your choice)? Which has the most cup holders and the best vanity mirrors? The beautiful thing is, there is plenty of variety to go around.
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Postby Burl East on Fri Aug 13, 2004 12:22 pm

Having owned the 993 and driven dozens of 996s I would have to say the 993 has more soul. I does indeed feel like a Porsch is supposed to feel. The engine sound alone is worth the price of admission - and while old fashioned, I think the interior is nicer that the early 996 (although later models are better). I also like the exterior looks better - the car is more coke bottle shapes (or some might say like a womans body).

Having said that, the 996 is a faster car - hands down. It is so much easier to drive at speed, the suspension is mostly unflappable. It has more of everthing, more power, more brakes and more rubber. :idea:

The problem with our ranking them is that both end up in MSS where the 993 with about 50 less hp is largely uncompetiive (except for the very fast Kary - go dude :!: ) What we really should do is put the 993 in a lower class where it belongs.

So, long story short - to me it looks like the 997 will be a huge winner, revised interior, much more like an updated 993, coke bottle shape and sophistited suspension and brakes - If only it had an air cooled engine :rockon:

I just put down a deposit on the 997 GT3 :mrgreen: now wondering if I can get a GT3RS
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Postby rss996 on Fri Aug 13, 2004 1:17 pm

Burl,

I agree, the 997 will be a winner and i hope to own one in a few years..Why don't you buy a 997s now and sell it to me cheap when your 997 GT3 arrives.... :D

I Like the C4S body the best, once I see the 997s in person I'll give my opinion on it compared to C4S...Too hard to tell in photos etc.

See you Aug. 21st.

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Postby kary on Fri Aug 13, 2004 1:38 pm

I think the 997 as a street car will be very popular. Porsche made a serious change in the visuals of the 997 as compared to the 996. If you have seen the commercial (the full version on the internet) for the 997 where the boy sitting at his desk at school and see's a 997 coming down the street, it is hard not to see a 993 shape and look at a glance. The car is fairly far away in the shot and it is only as it gets closer that you realize the car is slightyl different than a 993.

When I watched this commercial I thought they were going to make some sort of comparison with the 993 at that point in the commercial. It seems to me Porsche is hooking back to all those people (who supposedly are in the minority) toward the look of the 993. The additional flaring of the fenders and the headlights are a sign, otherwise why would they revert back to this design?

What remains to be seen is whether or not the 997 has the soul (as Burl pointed out) like some of the older 911's. This is the single most important issue to Porsche lover's such as myself. I have to believe that Porsche also put back that soul given the visual changes they made.

The 2004 GT3 has that soul though a little more road feedback would be nice, though I love that car (the shape notwithstanding).
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