new 997 - concerns

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Postby Curt on Fri Aug 13, 2004 2:05 pm

I can look at a 993 all day long. Gorgeous. It has charisma, and presence. It was the perfect ENDING to an amazing line of sports cars. If I had a 993 like Kary's I wouldn't even entertain the possibility of replacing it with a 996. Fight on Kary and take solace in the fact that you have one of the two best looking 911 designs in your garage.  :bowdown:

The 993 is "ugly"? ALL the rest of our cars should be so ugly!!!!

I could almost understand it if the owner of a Ferrari 360 said the 993 was ugly, but a 996 owner?
Last edited by Curt on Fri Aug 13, 2004 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ummm

Postby gulf911 on Fri Aug 13, 2004 2:13 pm

Nicely put Tinky Winky... :lol:
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Postby David J Marguglio on Fri Aug 13, 2004 2:26 pm

Ugly is in the eye of the bonehead...err rather...beholder, I guess.
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Postby Bob Gagnon on Fri Aug 13, 2004 4:05 pm

Dave- What I was trying to say was Porsche makes two racing versions of the 996. One version, the Cup variant, to race only against other Porsches in Carrera Cup/SuperCup racing and another, the GT3RSR for FIA racing against other manufactuers.

The SuperCup/Carrera Cup car is based on the GT3 street car.

The GT3RSR is based on the GT3RS street car.

The GT3RS is the real homologation special for FIA racing.

Either version has little in common with a normal 996. As you know the GT2, GT3 and Turbo engines are actually based on the original air cooled 911's true dry sump crankcase. It is really more a normally aspirated 959 engine with water jackets over the cylinders-the GT3 even has titanium rods like a 959.

Porsche has really gone back to the days of the 356 in terms of product philosophy. The normal 356 had a pushrod, wet sump engine not really designed for racing. The 356 Carrera, on the other hand, came with a dry sump 4-overhead cam engine derived from the 550 RS, a real racing engine.

So, if you want the equivalent of a pushrod 356 get a normal 996.
If you want a car with a racing type engine (and gearbox as well) the GT2/3, Turbo is for you.

Speed costs money, how fast do you want to go? :beerchug:
Last edited by Bob Gagnon on Fri Aug 13, 2004 6:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Burl East on Fri Aug 13, 2004 5:17 pm

Spongbob

To the best of your knowledge can one get a GT3RS her in the US :?:
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Postby Bob Gagnon on Fri Aug 13, 2004 5:57 pm

Burl-

The answer is NO, Porsche held off on their promise to offer all models of their cars in all markets almost as soon as they made the promise. :roll: Just like when we didn't get the RS 2.7, RS 3.0, 964 RS and 993 RS variants, we don't get the GT3RS. :cry:

I have a copy of the Porsche "Service Information Technik" on the GT3RS and here are the differences between RS and standard GT3 I find:

1. Engine has "optimized geometry" of intake ports and is designated M79/80 type number

2. The data record in the ME 7.8 Motronic is designated as "GT3 RS EU4" for programming of the control unit

3. There is a modified air duct below the rear wing on the engie cover to provide a ram effect at high vehicle speeds

4. The exhaust pipe tips are the same as the 40 years 911

5. Spark plugs are special M12X1.25 thread with 2 earth electrodes

6. The G96/90 gearbox is the same as normal GT3

7. Single mass flywheel fitted instead of dual mass

8. The RS front wheel carrier is completely different and is a hollow cast aluminum part and has 2 bolts instead of one to secure the strut, also has 6 bolts instead of 4 to hold in the wheel bearing. The mounting points for the control arms and track rods have been lowered relative to standard GT3.

9. A picture of the rear spring strut is shown in the book where I would expect the front strut to be shown and the text states that the spring rate is 45 N/mm which is what I would expect a front spring to be. There is not other mention of spring rates or other shock spring comments.

10. The RS rear wheel carrier is also completely new and is also a hollow sand casting with lateral and tie rod mounting points lowered as in the front wheel carrier. The wheel bearing is held in with 6 bolts instead of 4 here as in front.

11. The rear lower control arm has shims to adjust camber like the front and the eccentric to adjust camber has a longer travel so the slot for it is wider on the center carrier.

12. The stabilizers are same as the normal GT3 just set harder at the factory.

13. Carbon fiber front hood painted on top only inside is carbon look Only one gas strut to support.

14. Larger carbon fiber rear wing (7 inchs more span and 2 inches more chord).

15. Carrara White color only with choice of red or blue emblems with matching red or blue wheel centers

16. The front bumper cover has slots at the top which duct the center radiator upward rather than down under the car, wire mesh grills are fitted in front of the air intakes and at the outlets.

17. Polycarbonate rear window.

18. Carbon look rear view mirrors

19. Red or blue seat belts to match exterior logos.

20. Interior as GT3 clubsport but with Alcantara steering wheel, gear lever and handbrake sewn in red or blue to match logos

21. No glovebox

22. No cupholders (YES!)

23. Door panels with storage pockets instead of loudspeakers.

:beerchug: [/img]
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Postby MikeD on Fri Aug 13, 2004 8:31 pm

I have no personal experience with these guys... yet. But they make it sound possible to get a 996 GT3 RS (and possibly a 997 GT3 RS) here in the states.

http://www.euro-rs.com/index.htm

As they say, just a matter of time and money and anything is possible.
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Postby Jad on Mon Aug 16, 2004 8:39 am

Yikes! I thought WE were suppose to be the Porsche people who bought the car because it was fast and the poseurs bought it because it was pretty :? That new Hyundia Tiburon is hot looking, throw on a 5" exhaust for sound - bam! the 993 is gone as speed doesn't matter :lol: OK, that is a bit much, but basically what you are saying...

If you want a fast comfortable street car, buy a 996. If you want a fast fun racecar, buy an early 70's 911 (and tweek it). If speed is all the matters, buy a 996 cup car, GT3 or whatever everyone decided they are called. All the others are just a comprimise on price, comfort and performance (and looks) based on individual taste, but not really great at anything. Of course, your opinions may vary A LOT.
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Postby David J Marguglio on Mon Aug 16, 2004 11:21 am

All the others are just a comprimise on price, comfort and performance (and looks) based on individual taste...


Yes, I would say that sounds about right. It is all a compromise that we are willing to make, otherwise we might all buy a new Elise.

But let us not forget the "soul" that was elluded to earlier, but perhaps that too is based on individual taste.

So yes, I renew my concurance with the aforementioned. :D
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Postby Jad on Mon Aug 16, 2004 11:43 am

The Elise reminds me that safety might also be a consideration as the car looks really fun, but would be way too scary for me to drive on the street with SUV's or even the aforementioned 400+ hp sedans. And as a track car, you can do a lot better with $40k.

Sole is very biased and really can't be experienced until you live with a car for several months. I think Porsches make very mediocre first impressions. Until you learn to communicate with the car, they are not that great. I had an MR2 that was love at first sight/drive, but after a month, the luster quickly wore off. What was fun at 80% was a miserable joke at 90-100%. So maybe the new cars are just more subtle and until you live with them, you can't feel them as well.

You now, if EVERYONE drove Elises, it really would solve a lot of the world problems. Gas usage would go way down, more room on the freeways, more parking, polution would be great reduced, freeways would be quieter... you may be onto something here. :roll: :)
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Postby kary on Mon Aug 16, 2004 1:14 pm

:banghead:
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Postby Jad on Mon Aug 16, 2004 2:57 pm

kary wrote:
As we have had this discussion before on this forum, the population will vote with their feet by the valuation of the cars over the years. It has already begun when I can buy a 996 for the same price as a 993 in similar condition. Don't shoot the messenger here, I did not set the market prices! It is simply an indication of what the population likes and does not like contrary to your statement about the "majority". If the majority liked the 996 the prices would certainly be up, or are you saying because they produced so many 996's you feel there is a majority compared to the lower production numbers of the 993?

It is always interesting how people confuse things and bring up irrelevant points to a persons post.

Nice try Kary, but in reality, the most valued 993 is the '98 S coupe with Kelly BB private party value at $37K, the cheapest basic 996 has a bb value of $41K with similar mileage-cond-etc. 993's start at $30K. You are right, "it is interesting how people confuse things" or state things as facts when they are not.
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Postby David J Marguglio on Mon Aug 16, 2004 4:06 pm

Well, I am not getting in between you two on this, but I will say,
from my own recent shopping experience: There is often a big difference between what the blue book (or any book) says something is worth and how they are actually selling.

Case in point, my boxster has a blue book private party value of $24.6k but these cars are selling in the teens. Its all about supply and demand; there simply is a ton of boxsters and 996's out there for sale. Not so many 993's or 964's. Ergo, they seem to be selling closer to their "value" than the newer cars.
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Postby Bob Gagnon on Mon Aug 16, 2004 4:09 pm

I sat in an Elise for the first time the other day and it reminded me of the first time I drove a 550 Spyder. The car just fits tight around you and seems so small with a lot of bare metallic surfaces inside.

I agree with Jad, my first thought looking out of ithe Elise was of vulnerability. You would certainly not want to be hit by another car.

Looks like a lot of fun though :D
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Postby David J Marguglio on Mon Aug 16, 2004 4:16 pm

Bob: exactly my point. We all make our compromises, be it safety, price, creature comforts (cd and ac in Kary's case), etc. Otherwise, we would all drive something with no compromises like a formula car. Oh, and ground clearance...thats another compromise. :lol:
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