Roll bar and Roll Cage spec's...

[4est]

Where do I find the spec's for a roll cage? Size, type, wall thickness, number of bends, all of it. I got a new welder for Christmas, and plan on putting it to good use. I only TT, but would want to meet Club Racing guidelines in cas I ever sold the car.

[Steve Grosekemper]

Hmmm... how about looking on the rules page of this site?
http://www.pcasdr.org/porsche_events/pr ... /index.php
Don't forget to check club racing...
http://www.pca.org/clubrace/docs/forms.htm
and POC rules as well.
http://www.porscheclub.com/pdf/2007/2007GCRs.pdf
Don't forget the tubing bender, pads, hardware, and tubing notcher...
And more time than you can possibly imagine!

Hey Forrest, making your own fuel cell and roll bar?
Do you have low self esteem issues?

I'll do just about everything on the racecars I build, but I leave the safety to the experts.
Autopower makes high quality and very reasonably priced bars...
I can't imagine how you could make one for less that you could buy one for... and if you got a used one??? You'd be ahead of the game.

Weld up a tire rack, or something before you try a life saving device.
Just my 2-cents (inflation, not included)

[harnishclan]

Forest, Steve's right. I just finished welding in my cage. It was pre bent/cut/notched. and still took a ton of work and time to put in. End result was that I spent more money (not counting time) than it would have cost to have a cage welded in by a professional. For what it's worth, mine was ordered from Kirk racing in Alabama (www.kirkracing.com) cost $675 with a few extra options and $127 to ship. Took two people, one of which is a very experienced professional welder the was the shop monkey (me) about 20 hours of time each. I could have had a similar cage put in for $850 and zero out of pocket time by me.

[4est]

No self esteem issues, but thanks so very much for asking (jack &%#).

There are several people here in town that design and weld in cages or 4 point bars, and they got their start somewhere. Yeah, I'll weld a tire rack on my new trailer first, I'm not an idiot. Maybe just too much time on my hands.

I have an AutoPower 4 point in my car now. The quality is not an issue, but it fits like crap and blocks a good portion of your view out the rear window. Ask Martin about how much he likes his AutoPower cage. I want to buld one out of the 1.5" tubing that fits up next to the B pillar and more closely fits the roof line now that I don't have a sunroof. I need a better fit for the cross bar that holds the harnesses, too (it's a bit low).

Anybody know who welds cages for a reasonable price?

[martinreinhardt]

I agree that the bolt-ins are cumbersome and the visibility is limited. But, it's a cheap way to get a rollbar or cage and it does stiffen the chassis. I just sold it to a racer in Arizona.

I see where you are coming from. It was a real challenge to get someone to build a quality custom cage for me. I tried to get someone for 6 weeks, was on their waiting list, then I found out that Autopower builds custom roll-cages not just bolt-ins.

Autopower just built a custom weld-in roll-cage for my 964 using pictures I gave them from a Carrera Cup car. I am very pleased with their high quality work and building time (less than week). Highly recommended !

On the market bolt-in cages costs from $850 - $1500 and weld-in cages start at around $2000-$3000. Roll bars (rear) prices are about half from what I found.

[Steve Grosekemper]

No self esteem issues, but thanks so very much for asking (jack &%#).

There are several people here in town that design and weld in cages or 4 point bars, and they got their start somewhere. Yeah, I'll weld a tire rack on my new trailer first, I'm not an idiot. Maybe just too much time on my hands.

I have an AutoPower 4 point in my car now. The quality is not an issue, but it fits like crap and blocks a good portion of your view out the rear window. Ask Martin about how much he likes his AutoPower cage. I want to buld one out of the 1.5" tubing that fits up next to the B pillar and more closely fits the roof line now that I don't have a sunroof. I need a better fit for the cross bar that holds the harnesses, too (it's a bit low).

Anybody know who welds cages for a reasonable price?

No need to get nasty...and I never implied you were an idiot
I just thought I would share my experiences and others who I have gone down that road.
I have grown to appriciate time more and more as I get older. You must have a lot more that I do. I am jealous.

Oh ya, I hope the rules links helped you out as well.

[4est]

Anybody you talked to, in particular Martin (at AutoPower)? Did they do it down by the sports arena, and are you going to install it yourself or are they? How much?

Steve, the spec's are there (and thank you). but I have heard there are specifics such as maximum number of bends (5, I think) in the main hoop and other issues, so where can I find some fairly hard data? The links you provided just specify what type tubing can be used. Also, is a 4 point considered a roll bar or a cage (half cage)? The Club Racing link listed 1.75 as a minimum for a roll bar and 1.5 for a cage. I have also heard you can use 1.75 for the main hoop and 1.5 for the rest. I didn't really see any more specifics than size. I have heard alot of things, but don't want to spin my wheels doing redo's. Maybe SCCA?...

[Mike]

Autopower installed a custom cage in my 911.
They did it at the location near the Sport Arena.
When they welded the cage to the 911 they took precautions so as not to warp the tub.
If the tub is warped the doors won't shut, instead they will overlap the rear door jam.
Call them up and they'll tell give you enough info where you'll find you might be safer/better off letting them do it.

[martinreinhardt]

Forest, I spoke to Don at Autopower http://www.autopowerindustries.com. They welded my new cup style (6point I guess) cage in at the Sports Area shop and they knew what dimensions 1.5", wall thickness, window net etc and also considered the PCA and SCCA specs. Their price was similar or better than the other three welders I talked to.

BTW: I drove the car home, the doors closed and no windows where damaged or cracked. All I had to do is to cut the door trims a little and paint the cage. The car will have to be corner-balanced or at least checked if it changed before the next event.

[Jad]

Nah, Martin you don't need a new corner balance. Save some money and Willow is easy on tires, so save some more money and just finish off last years tires

[martinreinhardt]

Unless I get that giant wing and brand new Toyo's or V710's mounted, you don't have to worry about me at Big Willow. But, I will bring two sets of wider tires this year.

Just in case, I made sure that I can fit a finger thru the window net to point you by (finger may vary depending on how much faster you are)

[Steve Grosekemper]

Martin,
You crack me up!

Forest,
5 bends is max.
Not sure where this is stated, I would have to look.
That allows you to put that one at TDC so you can see out the back.
I did a bolt-in bar (autopower) a few months back for a tall driver (Both hoop and cross bar mods) and while it was hell to install the end result was great. AP was very accommodating.

Hoop and back braces is a bar (4-point)
Add a front hoop and attachments (6-point) and it is a cage.

[CoryM]

The NASA and SCCA rulebooks are also online and cover rollcages in more detail than the POC and PCA books.

If you do decide to build your own cage, I have a tubing bender and 1.5" dies and a notching jig, maybe we can work something out so you don't have to buy your own ($700+). PM me if you are interested.