Latest generation 911 engine on test rig

[Bob Gagnon]

This link is to a video of a test dyno at Porsche to test the oiling system of the latest generation of 911/Cayman/Boxster engine. This engine has a complex, multistage oil pump that uses an electronically controlled drive to vary the oil pump's output dependent on need.

I would like to know more about the electronic drive and how this engine stores, distributes and scavenges its oil. It is not a dry sump I understand.

The rig tilts the engine to simulate the G loading of the engine using Nurburgring data as a test cycle.

Watch the high res option if you can, the instruments show track position, G vector, RPM and car speed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fv53RbvgfGc

[Jad]

It would seem the simulator could simulate at most, 1G in theory, so I guess the new car can never pull more than 1G?


Looks cool, but I don't think it proves reliablity as a race engine which would be subject to 1.5+ G's quite often.

[Steve Grosekemper]

Jad is correct, in order to simulate a true G-load the entire unit would have to be on a sled and be propelled at great speed in opposing directions.

They are just tipping a bucket on its side instead throwing it against a wall at full speed.

The new system is more about using as little parasitic engine power as possible under normal driving conditions. An oil pump uses considerable amounts of power to make 5 bar of oil pressure.

I would love to see how this system works if anyone finds more data.
This is also a completely new motor so if anyone gets some real info on it be sure to post, from what I have read it sounds interesting. Would love to see some technical diagrams.
Bob? That sounds like a perfect project for you!

It would also be nice to see a graduated scale on the G meter. Looks like some pretty serious braking G's...

Don't forget to turn the volume up! It's quite a soundtrack

[cam]

Aren't they closer to 1.5g's in simulation by tipping on it side because if you have 1g side load you also have 1g(gravity itself)pulling down, so to acheive what the engine experiences at 1.5g's tipping could be enough??

[Steve Grosekemper]

If it was tipped at a 90 degree angle yes...
But it never sees more than 45-50 degrees of inclination.
Also there is the issue of inertia.
A fluid in motion wants to continue that motion.
If you slowly increase the force to 1-G you will have oil at a 45 degree angle in the sump.
Go from +.5 g's to -1 G in 1 second and the oil will be slammed up against the side of the sump uncovering the oil pick-up.
(Full throttle to full braking)
Of course baffles and windage trays reduce these forces greatly.

There is no replacement for a good old dry sump for starvation prevention, but this system is more about complete lubrication system control for economy as well as longevity.

[Bob Gagnon]

There is no replacement for a good old dry sump for starvation prevention, but this system is more about complete lubrication system control for economy as well as longevity.

No truer words were ever spoken IMHO.

I can't find the internet article now, but I saw a picture of the oil pump in the new motor and it looks like it has several pumping stages sort of like an Aviad pump. Also, in the article, they pointed out that by "tossing" the engine on the test rig to generate G forces at a greater rate than they actually would be generated in a car, the testers could capitalize on the inertia of the oil to "simulate" somewhat more than one G in the engine for test purposes.

When they did it so simply on the Turbo, GT 2 & GT 3, the fervor with which Porsche avoids building a true dry sump engine with an external oil tank for the rest of the Porsche lineup boggles the mind.

[Steve Grosekemper]

When they did it so simply on the Turbo, GT 2 & GT 3, the fervor with which Porsche avoids building a true dry sump engine with an external oil tank for the rest of the Porsche lineup boggles the mind.

These motors (Turbo, GT 2 & GT 3) are some of the best engines ever built by Porsche IMHO.
I assume these are cost saving measures as packaging is no longer an issue as the oil tank lives where the oil cooler used to live in the air cooled cars.
These engines are really packaging marvels. I think I could even fit a GT-3 into a red 914-6. Anyone have a spare lying aroung they don't know what to do with?

[gulf911]

I think I could even fit a GT-3 into a red 914-6.

If it leaks oil it should feel right at home in your car....

[993Panzer]

I think I could even fit a GT-3 into a red 914-6.

That's all we need. you driving a 914 go kart with 415 HP and 30 inch wide Goodyear slicks.

[Autobahn]

I need a cool dyno like that at Autobahn... people would pay money just to watch it.

[Bob Gagnon]

Below is an article from Autoweek, bold highlight is my addition, looks like the end of dry-sump engines for all Porsche models.

Porsche eyes new engines Upgraded powerplants planned for 911 Turbo, GT2 and GT3

By GREG KABLE
Porsche is set to provide upcoming facelifted versions of the 911 Turbo, 911 GT2 and 911 GT3 with contemporary new direct-injection gasoline engines as part of a program aimed at providing them with increased performance along with improved fuel economy and reduced CO2 emissions.

In a move that spells an end to the company’s legendary horizontally opposed six-cylinder M97 powerplant--the so-called Metzger engine, named after the Porsche motorsport engineer responsible for much of its early development--all three models are set to adopt the new A91 unit, as first unveiled in the facelifted 911 Carrera late in June.

Both the 911 Turbo and 911 GT2 are earmarked to receive the 3.6-liter version of the horizontally-opposed six-cylinder A91, which has 97.0mm bore and 81.5mm stroke measurements (the old engine had measurments of 100mm bore x 76.4mm stroke), along with twin variable-vane BorgWarner turbochargers and intercoolers.

Official output figures are yet to be revealed, but sources hint that power will climb by around 20 hp, taking the four-wheel-drive 911 Turbo up to 500 hp and the rear-wheel-drive 911 GT2 to around 550 hp.

The facelifted version of the rear-wheel-drive 911 GT3, on the other hand, is rumored to get a naturally aspirated 3.8-liter version of the A91 with a 102mm bore and 77.5mm stroke. To ensure that it retains its highly strung character, Porsche sources confirm that the A91 set for the GT3 will receive a number of internal revisions over the engine used in the 911 Carrera S, including lightweight pistons and other unique components--all aimed at reducing reciprocating masses to see power swell from today’s 415 hp to somewhere in the region of 430 hp.

As well as providing increased performance, the decision to provide the 911 Turbo, 911 GT2 and 911 GT3 with new direct-injection engines will further streamline production at Porsche's Zuffenhausen-based engine plant, according to high ranking insiders.

[Bob Gagnon]

I received an illustration of the latest A91 engine's oiling system which I would post here if I could figure out how to do that. The illustration is not super clear and there is no text describing the workings in detail, so one is left to figure it out for themselves.

Looking at the diagram and correlating with other photos I have of the electronically controlled oil pump, the best I can determine is that it looks to be another "integrated dry sump" but this time without the 2 scavenge pumps mounted in the cam boxes.

The scavenge pumps for the cam boxes are now centrally located and coaxial to the engine pressure pump and there are 4 of them, one for each cam. There are 4 long drain channels that connect the cam boxes to these central scavenge pumps.

Although not clear in the illustration, another twist appears to be some oil storage points that are within the crankcase, but isolated from the crankshaft. If this is the case, the crankcase oil may be better managed than before, however I would like to know how Porsche are doing this.

[kurquhart]

I received an illustration of the latest A91 engine's oiling system which I would post here if I could figure out how to do that.

The only way I know is to post the picture on some other website and embed an image link here. There is no facility for hosting local images on this site.

[Brad Roberts]

I think I could even fit a GT-3 into a red 914-6. Anyone have a spare lying aroung they don't know what to do with?

I know you already have the car

but it won't fit between the inner pickup ears (already tried) I had to cut them off and move them OUT. All it did was remove the 1inch wheel spacer after moving the entire control arm out. While I was at it.. I went ahead and raised the suspension point's 1.5 inches

Here is drawings of the engine. I posted these a 2-3 weeks back on a site I run.

Engine block goes back to what they know works for holding the crank in the block!! (multi-web like all previous 911 blocks)



Oil pump is chain driven and electronically controlled.



Let me know of you want any more drawings of the 997Gen2 stuff. Porsche released it a month or so ago!


B

[Bob Gagnon]

Totally cool that you have those drawings, how did Porsche release them?

It appears to me there must be a separate bolt on cover for the bottom of the engine so one can tighten rod nuts after inserting the piston/connecting rod, is this true? Is this cover what the dashed line at lower left hand corner is going to?