Q-AX tire wear question

[Irksome]

I am considering moving up to stickier tires for next season. Given my various life commitments, I realistically will only get to Qualcomm Stadium parking lot autocross events. Up to this point, I have used only street tires (Pzeros, PS2s, and Azenis 615s).

There is a ton of information out on the internet about tires, much of it contradictory, and it seems like much of it is situational (car/weather/track specific). So, I'm hoping all you local experts can provide me with Qualcomm Stadium parking lot autocross specific advice!

While I would like to get faster, I am also trying to do so 'economically'. I'm hoping to get information on how long the various <140 treadwear tires last at our AX events, and also which tires perform the best in our rough asphault parking lot. If it matters (and I'm guessing it does?), I'm driving an '03 996, a 3100 pound ass-dragging water pusher, with 18x8 fronts and 18x10 rears, currently completely stock.

I believe the contenders to be:
Hoosier A6
Nitto NT01
Toyo R888
Michelin Pilot Sport Cup
Yoko Advan A048
Kumho V710
Pirelli Pzero Corsa

I obviously can do my own pricing, so I'm really hoping to get performance and longevity ranking on the 'best' tires for our events.

Your help is much appreciated!

Tom Meissner
aka #1414

[harnishclan]

A really helpful place to look is the tire rack surveys and reviews. Here is a link to the survey:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/index.jsp

I use/have used Toyo RA-1, Kumho V710, and Hoosier A6 at stadium. For me, they tend to get hard and old a little before the tread goes away. I am in the same lifestyle circle (work too much to play very much) but my car is much lighter at 2400 pounds. Oh and much less horsepower as well, actually there is an old sway backed mule that has more HP and torque than my car does but I digress.

My next set of tires are going to be the Toyo R1R or 888.

[Irksome]

Thanks, Brian. I have spent (way too much) time perusing TireRack.com and a few other sites as well.

How many AX events do you get on a set, for each model?

For example, I got barely 6 events out of Michelin Pilot Sport PS2s, hard cornering would chew chunks out and then I had to replace the tires (usually with half the tread life left, darnit). The Azenis are holding up better, looks like I'll get 8-10 events, plus I put ~3000 street miles on them.

[harnishclan]

RA-1 6 events and counting, they started unshaved and so far 4-5 /32 have been "shaved" off at the Q
V710 7 events, but I flat spotted 2 of them braking too hard and they were old tires to start.
A6 0 events and waiting. They should have one event on them-but I had a senior moment the weekend of the Sept AX (details of which are posted elsewhere).

[harnishclan]

plus I put ~3000 street miles on them.

If you are going to do that many street miles on them, I would really avoid V710 and A6 type tires. They may be DOT rated, but they were never intended to driven safely on the street. And really would shy away from all the others if it is raining, hydroplanning starts at a pretty low speed with this family of tires. Ask Jackie C about that one.

[Irksome]

plus I put ~3000 street miles on them.

If you are going to do that many street miles on them, I would really avoid V710 and A6 type tires.

I wouldn't put any street miles on these tires, the 3000 on my Azenis were due to unfortunate timing and a shipping mistake by DiscountTireDirect. I bought new wheels for ax, bought new tires, but with a shipping mistake by DiscountTireDirect, I ended up having to run my street tires, which were near the end of life, and I completely destroyed them. So I used my Azenis to fill in until I got a new set of tires for my street wheels, which included a few long trips.

I definitely understand that the stickier tires are not for street use. They will only be on the street from/to my house in Scripps Ranch. And I have a third set of wheels (yes, I'm sliding down the slippery slope) for rain-capable event tires.

[Jad]

I think it is hard to argue with the value of the RA1/R888 tires. They really last a long time and stay sticky the entire time, are hard to flat spot, chunk or otherwise harm and should last almost an entire AX season assuming you are not too hard on them (no powersliding!) and have an appropriate alignment.

[4est]

+1 on the Toyos. I got over half a season of TT with a set of shaved, heat-cycled RA-1s. That's over 30 big-track heat cycles. The end of their life was evidenced by just 'going off'; the looked the same, still had some tread, but just started to slide (predictably) everywhere. Traction is pretty darn good, and they wear like iron. They have a super tough sidewall, which can be handy at Big Willow when using 9 psi (hot) in the right front... (don't ask)

[Jad]

I believe the contenders to be:
Hoosier A6
Nitto NT01
Toyo R888
Michelin Pilot Sport Cup
Yoko Advan A048
Kumho V710
Pirelli Pzero Corsa

I obviously can do my own pricing, so I'm really hoping to get performance and longevity ranking on the 'best' tires for our events.

Your help is much appreciated!

Tom Meissner
aka #1414

Tom, my input on each tire, A6 is probably the best single lap time tire of the bunch, but 1-2 events and they are done, the Nitto is similar to the Toyo, but slightly more money, harder to find and less info for exact wear limits and pressures, Toyo is the answer for most in your situation, Michelin is very expensive for mediocre grip, don't know about the Yoko, Kumho isn't a bad choice, slightly more grip than the Toyo, and generally considered slightly less than an A6, with wear somewhere in between the two. Pirelli expensive with mediocre grip.

And all of them will get you out of OSS so I can safely bring the Targa down without having to worry about you

[Irksome]

And all of them will get you out of OSS so I can safely bring the Targa down without having to worry about you

LOL! I am just thankful you have 300 treadwear rocks on that thing, or you would have taken me out!

Thanks for the great multi-tire review, Jad, all this info is really helping me out.

[mrondeau]

Tom,

Just went through this same conversation with Steve G. A-6's are the stickiest but require quite a bit of negative camber to get the most out of them and they don't last very long. Toyo's are sticky, predictable and last a long time. They typically lose the rest of their grip when you get to the second set of steel belts. Just ask Chuck Sharp. We ran a 4 or 5 year old set of RA1's at the last DE on the 944 without noticing any real difference in grip all day. When I took them off the car the next weekend. 2 of the tires were corded. One of them had very little rubber left.

When the AX tires for the Boxster are done, I'm going to get a set of R888's and maybe play around in NS with Tawfik and see if I can catch that madman.

[Irksome]

Heat cycling? Shaving? For Q-AX, do I need to worry about either of these things?

[Jad]

The RA1's need shaving, but the 888's are not nearly as squirmy when new as the blocks are much bigger. I usually take them for a drive on the freeway and put a little heat in them before the first use. May not be quite enough heat, but it makes me feel better and I save ~$50 on heat cycling.

[mrondeau]

The 888's do need to be heat cycled. Just drive them to get them hot and let them sit for about 48 hours before using them again. It makes a huge difference in grip.

[Irksome]

Well, I picked up another set of wheels, with Hoosiers attached (about one session of life left), and I'll play with those in November or December. Y'all have me leaning towards a set of R888s, sounds like a good bang for buck option.

Can anyone here give me definitive fitment info for my stock 996? I'm going to be running 18x8 and 18x10 wheels. To keep the diameters the same with maximum rubber, it seems like 245/40/18, 275/35/18 would be perfect, or 245/40/18, 295/30/18 would be close enough to not mess up my computer. But will the 245/40 fit in my front wheel well? And should I push 295 onto the 10" rim, or go undersized with the 275?