alternate sub belt attachment point ????

[kleggo]

Hi
I realize that conventional wisdom dictates that most of us drill through the floor pan and install eye bolts for sub strap attachment points.

I am resisting that path purely because i don't want to drill holes in the car.
I realize many of you think that's foolish, please try to put that aside.

I've seen two alternatives;
1. Around the thigh harnesses, similar to a parachute harness, that attaches twice to the existing lap belt attachment points. People here in So. Cal, frown on this because it is;
A. unconventional
B. perhaps not well suited for upright seats, local vendor SUBESPORT does not recommend this path for upright seats.
C. creates a busy attachment point

2. Fabricating a bar that runs under the seat pan to wrap the sub belt around.

I'd like to try # 2, but am getting conflicting information as to whether or not i can use the seat mounts to attach the bar to, or if i have to sandwich the bar between the seat mounts and the floor pan somehow.

I run in PCA and POC events.

The car is a 96 4S.

Looking forward to your thoughts and or photo's if you've gone down this path.

thanks

Craig

[kurquhart]

I can understand not wanting to modify your car for the track. But do recognize that the track may modify your car (or you!) without asking your permission. If you aren't ready for this, then don't take your car to the track. Pretty simple, really: do it right or don't do it at all.

[martinreinhardt]

I agree with Kris. Do it right and it may save your life in case of an incident.

The European GT3 seats come with a sub bar and lap belt mounts on the sliders for 5 or 6 point belts, but it is not legal to use these mounts in PCA or POC. I believe the main reason is because seat mounts can break off and I have seen it on 964's and 993's.

Even if you find an alternative legal way to attach the sub belts, you will still have to drill into the center tunnel to attach the lap belts for the driver and passenger side. The harness bar and door side of the lap belt will attach to the already existing mounts.

[kleggo]

Kris, Martin
Thanks for taking the time to reply.
you raise valid points and help me to make an informed decison.

are you saying that i can not mount my inner lap belts to a BK type fitting that is "sandwiched" between the bottom of the seat mount and the top of the sliders? They are also held in place by the bolt at that junction.
see http://www.livermoreperformance.com/...ss_mounts.html R 9004 and R 9005 parts for examples of what i am currently using

I intend to do PCA DE / TT and POC STS / TT as my upper limit
PCA class = NP and POC class = KP

thank you

Craig

[kurquhart]

PCA includes the following guideline:
XIII.A.4 Attachments must be to the car itself and not to the seat frames.

POC is much more explicit:
11.3.6 Harnesses must be mounted to either the chassis, backed by large diameter
washers, or to the roll bar/cage. No more than one strap can be mounted to the same mounting bolt.
Driver’s right (tunnel side) lap belt may be mounted to tunnel.

[4est]

What about the six point harness? Don't the ends of the sub strap go between the front seat mount bolts and the seat mount, effectively sandwiching the strap in an existing configration and not requiring another hole.

[kurquhart]

What about the six point harness? Don't the ends of the sub strap go between the front seat mount bolts and the seat mount, effectively sandwiching the strap in an existing configration and not requiring another hole.

Generally, no. I have two holes in my floor pan under the front of each seat, following the instructions provided by the manufacturer of my belts (Schroth).