PCA SDR

Posted: **Tue May 26, 2009 9:07 am**

Hey All,

I just completed the PDS this weekend. What a great time! Thanks goes out to all the instructors and other volunteers. It was a incredibly well produced event.

Aside from sending many cones to the cone graveyard, I tore up my tires nicely. I have a 2006 Cayman S and am looking for advice on the following:

1. Suggestions for tires that are both good on the street for a short commute to work and for autocross. I am still under warranty and have heard that I need to choose from Porsche approved tires to avoid any issues with warranty work.

2. Suggestions for additional work I should have done on the car within the warranty - alignment...etc.

3. Suggestions for shops for #1 and #2.

Thanks and see you at the next Autocross!

-Chuck L.

Posted: **Tue May 26, 2009 10:50 am**

First off, welcome to the madness :twisted:

I'm clueless about Cayman tires, others may chime in here, but as for the alignment:
If you're willing to put up with a bit faster tire wear when street driving you might look into having a "compromise" alignment done on you car. That would be having the car aligned to settings that are somewhere between the stock settings and full track-only settings. I have one of my 944's -the street stock one- aligned this way and it greatly improved the track manners (far less understeer) without noticeably affecting the daily driving manners. I'm sure the front tires will wear a bit faster when street driving, but that wear is insignificant when compared to the wear on the track anyway, so who cares? The car isn't a daily driver however (at least not very often) so your needs may of course be different.
My cars are aligned by Jae Lee at Mirage International in the Miramar area.

Posted: **Tue May 26, 2009 12:24 pm**

Chuck, Congratulations on completing the PDS! I'm proud to say that you drove very well and I know that you're going to continue to have a great time driving and Autocrossing your Cayman S. Welcome to the "slippery slope".

barefootceo wrote:1. Suggestions for tires that are both good on the street for a short commute to work and for autocross. I am still under warranty and have heard that I need to choose from Porsche approved tires to avoid any issues with warranty work.

I would suggest Bridgestone Potenza (Porsche approved). They have a 140 treadwear rating and are fun on the street and work really well for AX. Many others run Yokohama Advan tires as well and they perform very well for both.

barefootceo wrote:2. Suggestions for additional work I should have done on the car within the warranty - alignment...etc.

Get a "sport" alignment done by one of the shops in town. As Dave says, you'll sacrifice tire wear for handling, but IMHO it's worth it. They wear evenly (and quickly) as long as you continue to AX.

barefootceo wrote:3. Suggestions for shops for #1 and #2.

Dieter's, Mirage, or Black Forest come to mind. Feel free to call them up to discuss. You can find them online or in the latest Windblown Witness.(support those who support the club).

Posted: **Tue May 26, 2009 1:17 pm**

Don't forget Ryan Calvert at RSR Autosport in Santee (858.776.8347) Factory trained and certified Porsche technician, and friend to the Club... In addition to normal P-car service stuff, he maintains a lot of track/race cars for club members.

Posted: **Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:40 am**

Call Jae at MIRAGE Int. @ 858-581-1101

He sets up my 997s and sets up most other PCA & POC members cars.

1. Get a track alignment from Mirage! This will be the best "mod" for your car and have the most dramatics results in better handling and faster lap times!

Jae will talk with you and find what the best specs for YOU are. (he did with me!)

2. If you have 18" wheels I would recommend a set of Falken RT-615. These are the stickiest and best priced tires for AX and track. They are not N rated by porsche, but I would suggest getting a second set of wheels and have the tires as only AX and track. The added benefit is if you ever have to take your car in for warranty work you will have the stock tires on and you wont be tearing them up and the can not accuse you of tracking the car and causing whatever problem arises

3. Talk to Jae!

Mirage has helped me take my car from 100% stock, to more track oriented and has walked me through the process and I have gotten only what was best for what I wanted to accomplish.

Posted: **Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:06 am**

+1 on track/AX wheels. You can find Italian made wheels on ebay for $500-600. The work just fine, and look okay, too. then get whatever tires you want to run, dependant on class (if that's your thing). You won't have to worry about shredding one and not getting to work on Monday.

+1 on alignment. This is single most important thing you can do to the car, and is the most cost effective too. You don't need to spend a lot of money to get the performance you want and expect from a Porsche; it is already there, it is just hidden beneath a liability protective benign alignment setting for the masses.

Posted: **Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:38 pm**

A friend has a Cayman who has autocrossed the car and had major issues with front tire wear on the outside edge due to inadequate negative camber.

Jae Lee was able to achieve no more than around 0.6 deg. negative camber on the front wheels without modification, which is probably still not enough to eliminate the problem.

I would suggest adding the GT3 adjustable lower control arms, either original or after market, to try to adjust in more negative camber than stock adjustment will allow.

Posted: **Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:22 am**

Bob Gagnon wrote:I would suggest adding the GT3 adjustable lower control arms, either original or after market, to try to adjust in more negative camber than stock adjustment will allow.

Umm... Note that anything like this will push you out of Street Stock into Stock class, where you will be competing with people who do LOTS of mods to their cars. I would suggest keeping your car in Street Stock until you are sure you are ready to start pouring $$ into your car to stay competitive. Once you start down that slippery slope, all bets are off... :burnout:

Posted: **Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:05 pm**

The Michelin PS2s that came on my 2007 Cayman S chunked badly at Qualcomm. I'd chalk it up to 3 things: inexperience, factory camber set up, and the tires themselves - the Q seems to really tear up the Michelins. A couple of us switched to Kumho Ecsta XS, which are a nice tire for AX. They are stickier than the Michelins, they are wearing reasonably well, and they are not nearly as expensive as the Michelins. Like those above, I'd strongly recommend a performance alignment to the max negative camber that can be achieved without camber plates. A dealer will take it to the limit of the factory range. And drive - the more you drive and learn, the smoother you will become, the easier you will be on your tires, and the more fun you will have.

Posted: **Wed Jul 01, 2009 8:45 pm**

Kim Crosser wrote:
Bob Gagnon wrote:I would suggest adding the GT3 adjustable lower control arms, either original or after market, to try to adjust in more negative camber than stock adjustment will allow.

Umm... Note that anything like this will push you out of Street Stock into Stock class, where you will be competing with people who do LOTS of mods to their cars. I would suggest keeping your car in Street Stock until you are sure you are ready to start pouring $$ into your car to stay competitive. Once you start down that slippery slope, all bets are off...

Not to put too fine a point to it Kim, but wouldn't the GT3 front lower control arm modification be allowed under the 2 point maximum for Class K-Q Street Stock?

Two points would be assessed for "Non-stock items which increase the range of camber adjustment beyond the factory range" (Item "R" in the Z8 rules and PCASD tech inspection form).

If this is true, I can't think of a better 2 point modification given the limited range of adjustment at the Cayman front; not only would the car be probably faster, but more friendly to its rubber as well.

Or did I miss something (not unusual for me)?

Posted: **Thu Jul 02, 2009 8:16 am**

Bob Gagnon wrote:Not to put too fine a point to it Kim, but wouldn't the GT3 front lower control arm modification be allowed under the 2 point maximum for Class K-Q Street Stock?

You are probably right, although it seems that most of the newer cars are already taking 1 point for tires under 200 tread wear and only have 1 point left. If his tires are 200+ tread wear, then going to stickier tires might even be a better move than a suspension mod.

Posted: **Fri Jul 03, 2009 6:21 am**

Kim Crosser wrote:You are probably right, although it seems that most of the newer cars are already taking 1 point for tires under 200 tread wear and only have 1 point left. If his tires are 200+ tread wear, then going to stickier tires might even be a better move than a suspension mod.

Kim-
There is no 1-point tire penalty for 140-200 UTQG tires anymore. That rule lasted about a year. The current rules give soft compound high performance tires (DOT Street legal with a tread wear rating of 50-139) 2 points, and DOT tread wear rating of 49 or less get 4 points. Slicks are 6. So any car with 140 treadwear or greater gets no points for tires, as long as they are not wider than the maximum width for the class as specified in the table in Sec. III A.

TT

Posted: **Sun Jul 05, 2009 12:02 am**

I happened to be looking at the current rules, and for Street Stock:

"...the following modifications are not allowed in Street Stock:
a) Any DOT street legal tire with a tread wear rating of less than 140 (even if delivered as stock factory or OEM equipment)
b) Any tire that is not street legal
c) Modification or removal of catalytic converter
d) Modification or replacement of factory airbox or filter to increase flow
e) Headers
f) Any non-stock suspension improvement (including, but not limited to, items in Section III Parts N, O, P, Q, R, S, Y, AA)
g) Aftermarket mass airflow kits
h) DME chips
i) Modifications that require 100+ octane fuel
j) Lightweight flywheels
k) Removal of weight, and/or redistribution of weight (other than for Section XIII Part L)"

So no GT3 control arms, no R componds.
(You might consider getting the factory M030 sway bars [at least the rear one] and hope that next year's rules changes don't catch you out.)

Otherwise, get the front camber maxed-out, get some 140 tires, and then get lots of driving in until you are in a position to chase Kim's times...

-Russell

Posted: **Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:44 pm**

rshon wrote:I happened to be looking at the current rules, and for Street Stock:

"...the following modifications are not allowed in Street Stock:

f) Any non-stock suspension improvement (including, but not limited to, items in Section III Parts N, O, P, Q, R, S, Y, AA)

I hate this rule, particulary with regards to "AA" non standard equipped PASM cars not being allowed in Street Stock but forced into Stock class. Its killing me in the BRI!!

My advice to the Newbie Cayman driver (I still am a Newbie myself I must add, only in my 2nd season of AXing) ... Keep it street stock, invest in a performance alignment from Dieters, Black Forest (I've had them both do this to my car and can recommend them) or any of the other well established Porsche specialists in San Diego and then learn to save your tires whilst AXing.

Not wanting to ruin my expensive PS2s, I invested in a second set of cheaper Kumho Ecsta XS tires for autocrossing and 10 events later, they have worn evenly and I hope to continue to use them until the end of the year. Discount Tire on Genesse Ave can sort you out for $1000 OTD, or less from another source, but their fitment skills aren't quite up to scratch, so I won't mention any names.

I would not recommend fitting the GT3 control arms and being bumped into NS class. It's not a nice place to be, when you're running up against experienced drivers and their cars with highly tuned suspension and sticky tires.

Good Luck!

PCA SDR

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