Choosing break pads...

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Choosing break pads...

Postby galis on Sun Sep 06, 2009 4:46 pm

Lately I've been practicing heel and toe, really like the results now that I'm getting better at it! Accept, I'm sure my breaks are gona show for it. So I've begun shopping for pads (my disks have about 10,000 miles I think). With my current wheels, I have lots of extra (post threshold) breaking available, so I was thinking, if I got a pad that doesn't eat rotors, has high temp capacity and long life that would all be a worthwhile trade off for a little less breaking power.

So what type of pads? I guess there are ceramic, metallic, asbestos, and a whole rainbow of colors to choose from but I can't find a comparison chart (they all seem to provide "excellent performance"); and I've seen pricing from the $20s to over $200. So to promote rotor life, maintain high temp stability and pricing that makes changes fun, can anyone suggest a vendor and type?

Actually I've never experienced any high temp degradation, but given the application, sounds like something to watch out for.

-g
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Re: Choosing break pads...

Postby ChuckS on Sun Sep 06, 2009 5:10 pm

George,
There are two different approaches. You can get a pad that works on both the street and AX track and leave them in all the time or you can get a track pad and change them before and after AX's.
I am sure that others will have good recomendations as well, but for the first case, my suggestion is to try Hawk HPS. These are great street pads for a 944 that can also take the heat of an AX, but not the heat of a big track.
The second approach will allow a more aggressive pad such as a Porterfield R4 or RS4. The RS4 can also be used on the street
Stay away from Hawk Blue's. They will eat your rotors for lunch!

My $.02 :beerchug:
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Re: Choosing break pads...

Postby Dan Chambers on Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:11 am

George:
+1 for the Porterfield R-4S. This is a carbon-kevlar pad that does remarkably well on track applications while being a quiet, low-dust street pad that won't squeal when cold or damp. I used the R-4 and R-4S pads on my '87 944 for years with very pleasing results. Rotor wear was low (similar to standard brake pads), durability was impressive for an aggressive street/track pad, and cost was terrific for the use application.

Currently I use the R-4 on front and the R-4S on the rear for "biasing" at the track. This seems a good balance for avoiding rear-wheel lockup, especially when track-braking hard and trail-braking with an open differential (cr@p! I gotta stop giving away all my secrets!). BTW: R-4S stands for "R-4 Street."

As for managing your heat, I strongly recommend removing the rotor splash guards from inside of the rotors on your hubs. Unless you plan to move to Seattle, or Miami, these splash guards are pretty much useless in San Diego, and trap heat around the rotor. This can cause excessive heating and potential over-heating of your fluid at the track. High heat can excellerate wear of the pads and rotors. There is also a remote chance of over-heated rotor warping on really hot days (rare in Mission Valley). These splash guards are held on by a couple of bolts that tap into the hubs. You can either wrestle the guards of after removing the bolts (as I did with much foul language) or remove the rotors prior to pulling the guards of (with far less swearing). The next time you change pads you can spend and extra 15 to 20 minutes per wheel and remove the guards, or wait until the next rotor change-out and do it then.

Anyway, sorry to go of-topic. Porterfield for pads, R-4S highly recommended.

Good luck. PM for more info if you like.
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Re: Choosing break pads...

Postby MTrotter on Wed Sep 09, 2009 7:04 am

+3 for Porterfield.


They are great pads, all their compounds depending on your needs.

They have a great business as well... if you have a strange pad that they dont carry, just send them a worn out set they can make you a set. Same with shoes. you have an old car with drum brakes, autozone dosent carry them, send them off to Porterfield up in Costa Mesa and have them back in about 3 days from my experience (your results may vary).

this is a great way to keep your business local and get a fantastic product!

Oh, and its spelled "BRAKE" for brake pads. If they "Break" there are a different set of problems. ha ha


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Re: Choosing break pads...

Postby gocart on Wed Sep 09, 2009 1:02 pm

What about Pagids? Does anyone use these for the street as well as the track?

And where do you get the "hose" to use for ducting the air to the brakes?
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Re: Choosing brake pads...

Postby Greg Phillips on Wed Sep 09, 2009 1:40 pm

Here is a link to a full discussion on brake pad selection:

http://www.essexparts.com/learning-cent ... brake-pads

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Re: Choosing break pads...

Postby Steve Grosekemper on Wed Sep 09, 2009 4:45 pm

gocart wrote:What about Pagids? Does anyone use these for the street as well as the track?

And where do you get the "hose" to use for ducting the air to the brakes?


I use Pagid Oranges on my 911 on the street.
They work great but can be a bit noisy at times under light braking... but not bad.
They are not cheap however.
Cars with bigger brakes (4 piston calipers) will experience more noise.

The brake cooling hose can be had at various race outlets of hose suppliers for more money that I like to spend for something that is going to get torn off the car anyway...
So I use A/C duct hose. It has plastic wire instead of metal wire and is much more flexible. You can get it at any NAPA auto parts store.
I am installing some on a brake cooler set up right now.
The part number is 815-5008.
It comes in a box with a 6 ft piece of hose.
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Re: Choosing break pads...

Postby pdy on Wed Sep 09, 2009 4:52 pm

The article Greg shared is indeed thorough and helpful, though it does not list specific brands.

Gordon:

I use Pagid pads on both of my 911SCs. Although they are mainly track cars, I do also drive them on the street
(to/from Stadium events, plus a couple hundred other street miles monthly). I find the Pagids are not bad for the
street, and wonderful on the track. I especially like the solid feel and ability to modulate (nice for non-ABS cars).
However, you should consider the following;
1. I'm pretty conservative in my street driving
2. I put enough track miles on these car with these pads to know how they behave
3. Differences due to your car (though it's an earlish 911 too), driving habits, expectations, etc.

I use Pagid RS-29 & RS-19, BTW. The RS4-4 is a bit more street friendly, but not as good for track performance IMO.
Be warned - Pagids are not cheap.

I have Smart Racing Products Brake Duct Manifolds on my 911s which clamp around the front A-Arms. They help fix
the brake ducting from the spoiler so the flexible tubing more-or-less stays put.

I'll be at the autocross Sunday (with one of the cars), if you want to discuss, or look it over.
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Re: Choosing break pads...

Postby gocart on Wed Sep 09, 2009 6:03 pm

Thanks, Steve I've been searching for a while without much luck.

After reading the link, I guess the question I really need to ask is a little more specific.

Should I upgrade my pads before the DE at North Island?

My 911 weighs about 2100 lbs and has stock '71 "S" brakes, a 2,5 liter motor and RA-1s. I'm running Textar pads. (part no. 911-351-944-05 or 20011 185 0 4 T 400) Are these semi metallic? I still drive the car some on the street, but it has been more for AXing lately.

Opinions?

I should be at Sunday's AX as well. Sorry about the hijack. 8)
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Re: Choosing break pads...

Postby Steve Grosekemper on Wed Sep 09, 2009 9:28 pm

gocart wrote:Thanks, Steve I've been searching for a while without much luck.

After reading the link, I guess the question I really need to ask is a little more specific.

Should I upgrade my pads before the DE at North Island?

My 911 weighs about 2100 lbs and has stock '71 "S" brakes, a 2,5 liter motor and RA-1s. I'm running Textar pads. (part no. 911-351-944-05 or 20011 185 0 4 T 400) Are these semi metallic? I still drive the car some on the street, but it has been more for AXing lately.

Opinions?

I should be at Sunday's AX as well. Sorry about the hijack. 8)


Gordon,

I have one more set of Pagid Orange RS4-4 pads for the front of your car. (E4503 440 10) I don't use this size anymore and would be willing to make you a smoking deal on these. I have rears as well, but they go on everything 911 to 89.

I think the RS4-4's have much better feel and stop much better under lower temperatures and are a better match for your light car. I have run the RS 29/19 (Yellows) that Paul mentions on my 914-6 at Fontana after burning through a set of Oranges on a two driver TT weekend and they required far more pedal effort and heat before really stopping. They wore like iron though! Pagid oranges are my favorite pad and can only complain about the price. Give them a try and I am sure you will be hooked.

This is a good example of two drivers in similar cars with different tastes as Paul and I have been driving very closely matched SC's for several years. Some people like rocky road and others mint & chip...
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Re: Choosing break pads...

Postby Brad Roberts on Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:02 am

+4 on the Porterfields for non ABS cars and non 4 piston cars. Anyone remember "Cool Carbon" ? Andy Porterfield bought them way way back :)

What I have found:

Pagid on anything with ABS and 4 pistons weighing over 2300#'s work GREAT!! Choose your poison with pad compounds. I typically will run the Orange in front and maybe a Black in the rear depending on what I want for brake bias (I use different compounds to balance the brakes for the given track)

Porterfield on anything without ABS, but with 2 piston calipers and under #2500 lbs. Again.. pick your poison with pad compounds.

You are stepping into the deep end. Worrying about rotor wear is the least of your concerns. Last time I checked, rotors for your car were DIRT cheap!!



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Re: Choosing brake pads...

Postby galis on Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:09 pm

Greg Phillips wrote:Here is a link to a full discussion on brake pad selection:

http://www.essexparts.com/learning-cent ... brake-pads

Greg


Great link thanks!
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Re: Choosing break pads...

Postby galis on Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:16 pm

Brad Roberts wrote:You are stepping into the deep end. Worrying about rotor wear is the least of your concerns. Last time I checked, rotors for your car were DIRT cheap!!


Wow, I just assumed the rotors cost more than the pads! :rockon:

Brakes, whew, lots of great info!

I think Porterfield it is, R4 front and R4S rear seems a good try.

now, Any local vendors? :banghead:
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Re: Choosing break pads...

Postby mrondeau on Fri Sep 11, 2009 7:40 pm

I think Porterfield it is, R4 front and R4S rear seems a good try.

now, Any local vendors? :banghead:


Good choice. That's what I have on the 944S. I order mine directly from Porterfield. http://www.porterfield-brakes.com 949-548-4470.
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