928s performance upgrades

Porsche Technical related discussions.

Postby Jad on Wed Dec 08, 2004 11:29 am

Kary,

Maybe people don't post because they get attacked for their answers :roll:

If you read my original post, the last paragraph did give my suggestions for the best ways to improve the car. Plus, I was the first to help him find a repair shop in a previous thread.

You on the other hand, make statements like "we all need driving lessons not seat time, so nothing earth shattering there". Seems like you don't need seat time, but then in the next post, "I do not disagree with the notion of seat time"?

For some questions like which tire is best or which Porsche is best, I completely agree with needing more information, but when the question is what performance upgrades should I do, from my experience this means someone is very excited about a new sport and can't wait for the next event and wants to jump in with both feet. The question itself answers the question in its general nature and lack of required information for a experienced driver.

RED928 I do apologize if I offended you are scared you from the forum, I was trying to give you the best advice I could and still believe I did. These forums are individuals opinions and should be taken as such. Dan is probably right, I was Chief Driving Instructor for a reason, I believe it is more fun to drive well and beat much faster cars, Kary wants to go as fast as possible and started a business selling parts to help people go faster. I drove a stock n/a 944 for 6-7 years on street tires and I race 100 cc karts not shifters, because I believe the fun is the driving, not seeing who can spend the most money on upgrades.

You clearly have two seperate views, draw you own conclusions and come play with us, as we really do get along better than you might think from the forum. :beerchug:
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Postby MikeD on Wed Dec 08, 2004 12:18 pm

Hey Red928, welcome to PCA San Diego Region! :lol:
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Postby Dan Chambers on Wed Dec 08, 2004 2:05 pm

kary wrote:
Dan Chambers wrote:
kary wrote:
A look "outside the box" finds some irony in this thread: We have a former CDI encouraging more learning and driver education, and a supplier encouraging an emphasis on possible car needs. Should it be any different? :roll: I don't say this to be cruel to either Jad or Kary, but I see a subconcious influence in both their arguments. :roll:

Just my 2-cents.

See you on the 18th.


Dan, I have no ability to make any sort of suggestion around a 928 so your thought of me supplying anything here is off the mark. Unless of course someone would like a transponder, a race seat or harnesses? I beleive those would help drivers on a track, particularly in their driving technique. As I said, a regularly question people about why they want modifications and more times than not end up recommending no modification as the gains would not be useful for them. This is better business in my opinion in the long run.


Now, Now, Kary. Take a bigger step back outside the box with me. Further........ no, further..........a little bit more; ......until we're both outside the box.........

Good. Now, read the quote from me again. Now, read it again. Take a good look. Got it? Good.

I never mentioned anything about you supplying anything to anyone. Read the quote.... come on; with me........ it says: "and a supplier encouraging an emphasis on possible car needs. " Encouraging an emphasis, not supplying, or selling. Key words "encouraging an emphasis." Perhaps, just a misunderstanding of issues, that's all.

What I was trying to point out ... which was not lost on Ajackson ... was the irony posed by Jad and you, two indivduals with interests that run very deep. Gees. Sorry to ruffle the feathers here. I apologize. I guess my bad here.

I hope to see you all out on the 18th for a little fun. Decaf coffee available for those interested :wink: .

Cheers!
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Postby MikeD on Wed Dec 08, 2004 2:27 pm

Dan Chambers wrote:... Decaf coffee available for those interested :wink: .

Cheers!


Egads!! Why would you do that to those poor defenseless little coffee beans!
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Postby kary on Wed Dec 08, 2004 2:53 pm

I guess I am the one who does not get it here.

Best of luck to all of you!!!
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Postby bryanearll on Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:45 pm

As a new outsider "looking in" on the topic of upgrades and seat time, I would say with only one (1) performance driving school class under my belt, that I did decide to listen to my "elders" and put some seat time in prior to Up-Fixen der Porsche.

That said, I'm going to run as fast as I am able on the 18th and yes I will disappointed if I don't finish as well as I might. Why? Because I like to think I have talent... :roll: That said, I have a reasonable amount of humility that says "I'm likely to get clocked". My ambitions for next years bike racing are about as challenging.

However, I have ridden in Chuck's 2001 996 (1/2" lower and with 50 rated tires), and I do KNOW that the tires certainly felt different. I knew it after the first corner. I would have made much faster times in Chucks car than in mine.

So I explored upgrading the car, posted some thoughts amoungst the club members and pretty much was told to drive some in the car that I own now. I do know that $5000.00 will make me faster, but is it worth the investment? Eh, who knows, I guess it depends on how important improvement becomes to me. So I will go down to the Q and I will drive in the stock 2001 996. Does she go?; You bet, AND I'm a much better driver AFTER the Performance Driving School than before.

What do I hope to achieve? Good question. I guess like in bicycle racing I will find out what it's like to compete (IN A NON-COMPETITIVE EVENT - BRING A TOY), with people who are competitive like myself.

Could I be faster? Yep, I know that I could be with a suspension adjustment, better tires, and about 20 years of seat time. Bottom line is that I've been racing something or other for some time and this is just another fun thing to do.

So bring it!!!! I'll be fast or looking to be faster. It's always good to find a good and experienced instructor. In the end, I'm always looking to the scoreboard for results. The clock doesn't lie too often...
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Postby MikeD on Thu Dec 09, 2004 12:19 am

I could be wrong, but I think Kary's point is that it would have been mighty embarrassing for some had Red928's answer to Jad's question regarding experience been:

I've got a little experience. Like say 7 F1 World Championships. I'm just here is San Diego for a couple weeks, bought this (red) 928 to mess around with. Since most of my experience is in Ferrari's I thought I would touch base with the local Porschephiles to see if they had any suggestions on how to make my 928 perform a little better. Why do you ask? Think I could win my 8th title with a little help from some local instructors on an AX track in a parking lot?

It is rather presumptious, and I think rude, to just assume the poster has little or no experience and the best mod would be improving the driver. While it may very well be true, it is still rude to jump to that conclusion without first asking a few probing questions.

To Red928: Please just read Tom Tweed's advice and ignore the rest of this thread completely! Greg Phillips, Mike Avitt, and Mark Anderson are probably your best local resources for 928 mods. Unfortunately, Mike broke the top-end of his motor this past weekend, so we may not be seeing much of him for a little bit. But Greg is at almost all Autocrosses and Time Trials. And Mark Anderson is a POC regular.

My $0.02 on the matter.
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928 upgrades

Postby Greg Phillips on Fri Dec 10, 2004 12:44 am

Jeez- leave you guys alone for a few days and you try and scare off the 928 crowd :lol:
I will give you my experince in 928 upgrades over the past several years. Probably the simplest is to upgrade the shocks and springs along with alignment. I have used Eibach springs and both Bilstein and Koni shocks with good results. Up until recently that had been my only real perfomance modification. It only costs 2 points for the springs and you can run in street stock with street tires.
Next would be larger tires, stock is 225/50/16 on 7" wheels. I have run 8" wheels in the rear (S4 size) with 245/45/16 and later wnet to 17" wheels with 245/45/17 front and 255/40/17 rear, and probably next to 275 in the rear. The larger sizes will cost you points and may take you up to stock (or higher) classes. :oops: I only this year went to R tires. Have not tried slicks :shock:
After springs and shocks I added limited slip differential which helps a lot on the AX course and most recently upgraded the sway bars front and rear.
Only engine modification is a bypass pipe, but still had 286 hp at the rear wheel at teh Dyno Shop wtih 160k miles on the engine.
I had also added race seats and harnesses, but the car is still easily drivable on the street, I have not gone to a trailer yet :wink:
My 1986.5 has the S4 brakes and suspension components, but for brakes, I am using EBC red pads in the front and Hawk pads rear.
But along with the modifications has been seat time. Lots of autocrosses and TT and DE's over the years, but I am still learning :idea:
Look for me at most of the driving events, I will be in the Meteor Gray 928.
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Postby Curt on Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:23 pm

I have never seen so much wishy-washy advice. Take it from me because I know what works, and drawing upon my vast racing experience, what this guy REALLY NEEDS is a new guitar!
:D

Heck, Jad and Kary are both faster than me so I would try and do whatever both of them say.

And Mike D's post about this guys possible experience was pretty funny.
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928 as a race car

Postby Ken on Mon Dec 13, 2004 8:39 pm

At Willow last month, the 928s were out in force and kicked my tail - they were all prep'd by 928 International, so I'd track those guys down. I was running in the 1:34-1:35 range and they were all over me....

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