PCA SDR

Ha Ha (tears...) Fried something in my boxster 2.7 engine on last run at Fontana. Cyl# 3 was misfiring at end of run. Jeff and I limped home, eventually limped to Jae Lee at Mirage. Alas, nothing really easy (not a burned out coil or bad fuel injector -- checked these myself). Jae is partly into it now -- not a broken valve spring, just a dead cyl w/ low compression and bad leakdown test, all of which he checked with engine still in car. Fearing the worst is yet to come, I'm just wondering who has a spare and how $ I might be looking at here?

I would call Sean at Autobahn 619-444-2290 or Ryan at RSR Autosport 858-776-8347.

Good luck!

Pop the oil filter off and check for metal in the oil. If you see ANY, drain the oil pan and remove it. If you find metal pieces in the pan, you might as well go looking for another engine, as rebuilds are not cheap.

For a used engine, check with the local guys, but I also saw this new 2.7L crate engine on eBay a couple of days ago:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... 500wt_1182
(only a day and half left on the listing).

I've already checked with Porsche, and new motors will easily cost over twice what this guy is asking. (If it was a 3.2 or a 3.4, I would have already bought it...)

p.s. "We" are discovering that if you drive Boxsters and Caymans hard enough on the track, that steps will need to be taken to mitigate excessive power steering system heat, water pump and alternator wear, and oil starvation...

Thanks guys. Would you really buy an engine like that off ebay? Don't yet know what Jae found, but I think he looked in the bottom end didn't find metal flakes or shrapnel. But maybe it'll come down to a new motor anyway. And in case this car ever runs again, what "steps" would you take to mitigate that heat, oil starvation, etc? I thought water cooling was a step!

rshon wrote:Pop the oil filter off and check for metal in the oil. If you see ANY, drain the oil pan and remove it. If you find metal pieces in the pan, you might as well go looking for another engine, as rebuilds are not cheap.

For a used engine, check with the local guys, but I also saw this new 2.7L crate engine on eBay a couple of days ago:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... 500wt_1182
(only a day and half left on the listing).

I've already checked with Porsche, and new motors will easily cost over twice what this guy is asking. (If it was a 3.2 or a 3.4, I would have already bought it...)

p.s. "We" are discovering that if you drive Boxsters and Caymans hard enough on the track, that steps will need to be taken to mitigate excessive power steering system heat, water pump and alternator wear, and oil starvation...

I'm reflecting back a few years when Martin R. was posting of his on-going repairs on his 2.5L Boxter from track-related repairs. He finally went the way of the white C2 and left the Boxter for the street and occasional track events. Martin: got any input for these guys?

While I understand the inherent value in using a Boxter for track-playing, I have to wonder what it would take to properly prepare the car for such hard driving and improve durability. I'm thinking:

- dry-sump engine oiling system (That last statment above "oil starvation" really got my attention)
- stronger CV/axle systems
- updated or improved springs/shocks/struts/sway bars
- improved/strengthened suspension pick-up points
- rollbar/cage
- powersteering delete
- improved waterpump (shades of 944's)
- improved alternator & venting for alternator
- intake and exhaust upgrades
- simplification of electrical system (if possible) to reduce computer-induced start-failure(?)

I'm just throwing this out because the Boxter was one of the first "new production system" cars that uses the "Toyota" assembly approach instead of the Porsche "hand-build" meothods of the past. Make me wonder about volume production vs quality. Also, weren't the early Boxters built in Finland?

I'll say a prayer to the dismantler Gods and hope you guys are up and running real soon.

Best of Luck.

DC

Dave Diamond wrote: Would you really buy an engine like that off ebay?

Well, remanufactured M96 engines from Porsche are well over $10k now, and used engines are normally in this price range (and independent rebuilds are more), so yeah, after a quick trip to Newport Beach to verify that it's really a new engine purchased from Porsche (~including receipt~), I would buy it.

As far as power steering (melted return line fitting), water pump (worn shaft seal), and alternator (worn VR brushes), these three issues are all helped with the use of a crankshaft underdrive pulley, as sustained periods of high rpm cause the stress on the accessories (discovered by Cayman racers, who apparently experience the most power steering overheating; a cooler for the power steering is also a good idea). We (already) figured these things out the hard(er) way.

Ironically, the oil starvation problem is due to tire, suspension, and brake upgrades getting the cornering and braking forces up around 1G. The classic problem scenario for M96/M97 engines is very hard braking followed by a hard left turn (a.k.a. Fontana Turn 3) or sustained high-G left turns (Spring Mountain Turn 2, Fontana Turn 5). This is because the right head's oil pump is at the back of the engine (the left head's oil pump is at the front), so when oil pools in the front of the right head, the level in the main pan drops right at the time when the oil is starting to climb the side of the main sump, allowing the main oil pump to suck air. Not feasible to convert these engines to dry sump (although Porsche already calls them "Integrated Dry-Sump" engines). Some increase the pan depth and oil capacity or use a competition baffled X-51 oil pan. My next engine is going to get the pan and an Accusump, which injects oil into the system when the pressure from the oil pump drops...

p.s. Guess how many oil pumps the latest (2009 -) direct-injected Porsche 997/987 engines have? Answer: FIVE (two in each head). And the latest GT3 engines? SEVEN.

p.p.s Apparently there are also "opportunities" for 944/944T and air-cooled 911 track drivers to fix/buy engines...(they just seem less surprised)

We added oil pumps to the 996 via a Porsche Motorsports Upgrade. Not sure if it works in the Boxster.

We have an Accusump, but don't use it. I have several issues with it and am not sure it doesn't cause more problems than it solves. Let me know if you are interested in my issues with it.

I don't have a used motor, but to respond to Dan's post:

The Boxsters are a great car and I even considered converting mine into a Spec Boxster, but it's a car which was NOT designed to race by the factory and problems like mentioned above will appear over time. While racing mine, I went thru wheel bearings, engine mounts and oil separators like tires. Then broke the gearbox and later blew the engine which were replaced with brand new once.
I also replaced the engine mount with a solid one as I was getting tired replacing it all the time (4 times). (BTW Don't do this mod if you don't like to hear gear and every other noise in the car )

There are many race parts for the Boxster on the market now which correct some of these problems and should make it a pretty good race car.

I thought racing the 911 would be cheaper. After all the 964 was raced by the factory unlike most new Porsche models (expect the GT2 and GT3). A wheel sorted out 964 like mine is a much stronger and faster then a Boxster, but when it breaks it cost 2-3 times as much to repair. So it's not much different really, spend little often or spend a lot once in a while.

martinreinhardt wrote:I thought racing the 911 would be cheaper. After all the 964 was raced by the factory unlike most new Porsche models (expect the GT2 and GT3). A wheel sorted out 964 like mine is a much stronger and faster then a Boxster, but when it breaks it cost 2-3 times as much to repair. So it's not much different really, spend little often or spend a lot once in a while.

Just get a 944 and save the Boxster for the street.

+1 for 944. After ebay unnecessary parts and buying necessary ones, I have a 944 built about as far the suspension can go for less than $3500. almost the cost of a boxster motor and a little more than the cost of a boxster 6 speed transmission.

But if you want a decent Boxster rebuild-try MotorMeister in Downey. $5K for a complete rebuild, and you can also get a trans rebuilt while you are there.

You might want to search Motormeister on Pelican before you give them any work.

You may want to consider an upgrade. Check this out. http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/Boxster_Tech/11-ENGINE-911_Engine_Swap/11-ENGINE-911_Engine_Swap.htm

mrondeau wrote:

martinreinhardt wrote:I thought racing the 911 would be cheaper. After all the 964 was raced by the factory unlike most new Porsche models (expect the GT2 and GT3). A wheel sorted out 964 like mine is a much stronger and faster then a Boxster, but when it breaks it cost 2-3 times as much to repair. So it's not much different really, spend little often or spend a lot once in a while.

Just get a 944 and save the Boxster for the street.

Okay Mr. BRI. that's enough out of you!

I thought racing the 911 would be cheaper. After all the 964 was raced by the factory unlike most new Porsche models (expect the GT2 and GT3). A wheel sorted out 964 like mine is a much stronger and faster then a Boxster, but when it breaks it cost 2-3 times as much to repair. So it's not much different really, spend little often or spend a lot once in a while.

Uh-oh! I have a 964 engine. Should 'a' stayed with the 3.0L, right Steve G.?

As for Motor Meister ... "RUN, FORREST RUN!!!" Not much good comes from them but a lighter wallet with heavier problems. If you re-build, go to Dieter's, Black Forest, Mirage, (John) Chambers Motorsports, or RSR. You'll get much better results. Martin is right ... spend a lot now and be done, or spend a little time after time after time. Or do like I do ... spend a lot all the time.

Don't forget Todd at LA Porsche Dismantler...

Once again, thanks for all the input. This is a great discussion. Jae Lee discovered on the leakdown test that it's probably a bad exhaust valve in cyl # 3 , but the thing ain't apart yet because I'm still considering all this sage advice. If it's just that valve, is it worth just doing a minimal fix on that? Doing the whole, complete valve job on both heads is probably probably going to be over $5000 anyway, so that's why I was thinking new (rebuilt) engine.

That engine listed above on ebay didn't sell; I may go see it, but I'm a little skeptical. Guy says it's been in his garage for 4 years, unused, never started. It has a story but no paperwork. He's not a porsche guy. "Einmaligporsche" in Huntington beach has rebuilts for about 5 grand, with a 6 month warranty, plus a 2000 core charge (obviously I'll have a core to give him). Then it's just out with the old and in with the new. (anybody ever do this yourself? I have a lift in my garage from when the house was rebuilt after the fire.

I hate to give up on taking the boxster to the track (though I'll probably stick mostly to autocross). I see the merits of the 944, but that engine in the front thing...though it seems like so many of you really like them, and the price is right!