Data aquisition

[markvaden]

Hi,

I am considering buying a data aquisition device. I have read some of the threads in this forum and others on the G2X, and that is what I am leaning towards. I am also considering the traqmate and the DL2. Has anyone used either of these systems? I have also read that the traqmate software is limited. Does anyone know what the G2x software can do that the traqmate does not? Also one final question - has anyone used these at an autox? If so how did it work?

Thanks,
Mark

[Chris Benbow]

If you're interested in the G2X I would probably sell you mine. I've owned it for a year and haven't used it yet.
PM me if you're interested
Chris Benbow

[kary]

Hi,

I am considering buying a data aquisition device. I have read some of the threads in this forum and others on the G2X, and that is what I am leaning towards. I am also considering the traqmate and the DL2. Has anyone used either of these systems? I have also read that the traqmate software is limited. Does anyone know what the G2x software can do that the traqmate does not? Also one final question - has anyone used these at an autox? If so how did it work?

Thanks,
Mark

Mark,
I have been using and selling the G2X for a while now. So here are some comparisons I have found through my customers and my experience:

1. The G2X is the easiest to install and get going overall. The DL1 is not that easy to install.
2. The features of the comparable systems are about the same though I have found that with some basic instruction from the G2X manual (and my offering of help which I provide to anyone who buys one from me) they can get going much more rapidly than a DL1. I have used both software packages and the G2X if far easier to use over the Dl1 or traqmate.
3. The G2X has many advanced math functions and comparisons that the traqmate does not have. The DL1 might also but I was never able figure out how and the documentation was poor.
4. The G2X as compared to the others provides a nice in car display that the DL1 does not. Requires another 400 to 700 to add on.
5. The G2X and traqmate are made in the US while the DL1 is not. Support from myself and Racepak (G2X) is much better than the others.

As far as auto-x, data acquisition systems can be used like the G2X or Dl1 but they do not have as many features as compared to a race track setting because the auto-x is not a closed loop track. This limits the building of tracks becuase these software packages are looking for a strat/finish line not a start line and another finish line. Don't get me wrong you can create a track and look at g loads in corners and calculate segment times (hard to do) but since the data is triggered at the beginning of a run via speed or RPM you need to set the trigger to begin at or before the starting line. Then you need to determine the finish line via the software since these are not the same line. This is much more difficult to do for auto-x tracks than race tracks.

So in the end the features are more limited in auto-x than on regular tracks due to the design of the software packages. Possibly in the future some packages will focus on auto-x but normally these are used on big tracks more usefully. I have an example of one of the driving school auto-x track I drove with teh G2X but did not find it all that useful compared to big track data becaue of the limitations.

Call me if you have further questions.

[CoryM]

I was looking at the G2X site and it appears that the base $943.50 kit includes the unit, display, software, rpm cable, and little else. I'm wondering how much just looking at rpms, laptimes, speed, g's, and the gps generated track map is really going to help as a tuning or driver improvement tool. I think it would be great if it included the throttle position, brake pressure, and steering input, but those sensors and cable add another $1295 to the price of the kit, bringing the total to well over $2000. I didn't see any shock travel sensors but they are pretty similar in function to the steering sensor they sell so I bet something could be adapted to work.

It seems like a lot of these new data acquisition systems that are aimed at club racers (not just G2X) have reasonable base prices but by the time you get all of the sensors, cables, etc the price has doubled or tripled. Some of the displays look nice and I'm sure the base kits will work for some people but for real in-depth analysis and tuning I don't think the base kit will cut it. Personally I'd find it more useful to able to graph and compare where and how much brakes, throttle, and steering were applied, than to have a cool looking display with sequential shift lights

Kary, since you sell the G2X maybe you have a different opinion or examples of successful tuning or driver improvement from the data generated by the base kit?

What is needed to overlay the session data onto video?

Either way I'm glad that data acquisition system are becoming more mainstream and user friendly. The Pi system I played around with 5 years or so ago cost about $10k without any display so I think things are headed in the right direction.

[kary]

I was looking at the G2X site and it appears that the base $943.50 kit includes the unit, display, software, rpm cable, and little else. I'm wondering how much just looking at rpms, laptimes, speed, g's, and the gps generated track map is really going to help as a tuning or driver improvement tool. I think it would be great if it included the throttle position, brake pressure, and steering input, but those sensors and cable add another $1295 to the price of the kit, bringing the total to well over $2000. I didn't see any shock travel sensors but they are pretty similar in function to the steering sensor they sell so I bet something could be adapted to work.

It seems like a lot of these new data acquisition systems that are aimed at club racers (not just G2X) have reasonable base prices but by the time you get all of the sensors, cables, etc the price has doubled or tripled. Some of the displays look nice and I'm sure the base kits will work for some people but for real in-depth analysis and tuning I don't think the base kit will cut it. Personally I'd find it more useful to able to graph and compare where and how much brakes, throttle, and steering were applied, than to have a cool looking display with sequential shift lights

Kary, since you sell the G2X maybe you have a different opinion or examples of successful tuning or driver improvement from the data generated by the base kit?

What is needed to overlay the session data onto video?

Either way I'm glad that data acquisition system are becoming more mainstream and user friendly. The Pi system I played around with 5 years or so ago cost about $10k without any display so I think things are headed in the right direction.

I'll answer the easier questions first.

1) overlay video - in my opinion not real useful for driver improvement, neat to have though and only requires that you purchase the trackvision software ($125). The G2X software will output a data file to integrate into the video with the trackvision software.

2) Use without other sensors - while the throttle, brake, and steering package is nice you can see two out of the three with the basic unit using the G loads. I have successfully seen when I am lifting off the throttle and less obvious when I am on the throttle using the longitudinal G's. This also applies to the brakes as well. Not quite as accurate a the throttle and brake sensors but it is obvious from that data where I am on the brakes and throttle. In the old days they used RPM's only the calculate speed and determine throttle and braking as it shows up there as well. Note: I have been working with Racepak to come up with a reasonable set of sensors at a reasonable price. They were $1495, now $1295 and they are planning on a package around $799 in the future.

3) How I have used the G2X - many ways. I have used it to determine the fastest line through segments of a track. With the segmentation abilities and in conjunction with viewing the driving line I have been able to establish the fastest line through turn 1 and 2 at the California Speedway for example. The results of the endeavor were not so obvious with this unit. I have used the unit to overlay other drivers G2X data to see where they are picking up or loosing time to my laps. This has been a great addition, for example, have apro driver drive your car with the G2X and then over lay it on your data. rather amazing to see just how much faster the pro is and where he is faster! Performance improvements - change in engine, brakes, weight reductions, etc...can be seen when comparing segments, not just overal lap times but specific segments. Many folks think they ran faster when they see an overall lap time is faster. In reality I have learned through analyzing my own data that on any given lap I make mistakes in different corners each lap. I did not know where the time was coming from but now that I use this tool I know where I am doing well and where I am not.

4) Driver improvement - have many stories but the best is likely Jim Copp who dropped his times in one of his old cars by 3 seconds at WSIR. He was already right around 1:30 for lap time and move that down to 1:27's using the G load data into corners and segmentation. I find the same to be true. I also find that using the theorectical fastest lap provides a what if scenario for lap times within a session. Help you understand just how fast you could go if you could put together all the turns in one lap that you actual drove in that session of laps.


As far as the display in car, really nice to see accurate lap times as you cross the finish line and the shift lights are also useful as is the digital display showing MPH and RPM. Easier to read than analog gauges. I find the lap times very useful in time trail and during a race as they can give you fastest and differential times from previous and fastest laps quickly to help you turn it on or relax which ever case applies

So would I recommend this to everyone, no. I think this is a tool best used on a big track where continuous lapping occurs. It is best used by those that have some experience with their cars and track driving so they can use it more effectively than someone who struggles to maintain a driving line. having a small amount of computer knowledge is useful as well though I have seen some people get by well that know next to nothing about computers.

Hope this helps. Call me if you want to discuss.

[CoryM]

Thanks for the info Kary. If they could get the price of the extra parts down to $799 it would make the the kit a lot more appealing to me. It seems like the G2X is one of the more user friendly systems out there.

[kary]

Thanks for the info Kary. If they could get the price of the extra parts down to $799 it would make the the kit a lot more appealing to me. It seems like the G2X is one of the more user friendly systems out there.

There is much that can be learned with the extra parts that one will never see nor understand with a tool like this...I am always here when you are ready