Interesting thread about....

[Mike]

Even if the new timing concept never happens they can never take away our memories of Dan and Jad in harmony.
I now pronounce you TT racers, Dan you may now point bye Jad, or does Jad point you bye?:wink:

[bobbrand]

I'm on the side of Jad's list.

But, his #10 really hit home as well.
If you go fastest lap of the weekend, you totally eliminate the choke factor. The choke factor is a critical element of competing.

For example, it always goes through my mind to not blow the last corner of the first timed lap. If you blow the last corner of the first lap, then you can totally screw your time for both laps. Thoughts like that heighten your senses. They release endorphins. They charge you with energy.

Think about what the Olympics would be if they just took best performance during practice for the weekend. No pressure. No choke factor........NO TV RATINGS!!! Don't do it. Don't turn TT into a DE with bragging rights.

[gulf911]

Even if the new timing concept never happens they can never take away our memories of Dan and Jad in harmony.
I now pronounce you TT racers, Dan you may now point bye Jad, or does Jad point you bye?:wink:

I am not sure which, he didn't show up to the last TT...

[Jad]

I am not sure which, he didn't show up to the last TT...

True, but I did get both pole and TTOD at the enduro kart race that day and yet we got second place in the race . Maybe I will change my mind, best lap you ever do counts as the winner. Yeah we won the 4 hour kart race in one ~38 second lap - forget the rest . And maybe that one time I did a lap at Big Willow of 1:33, will be used for every event going forward so I can have the class victory locked up without ever turning another lap, after all, I have proven I CAN do it...

PS - Dan, what was your best time at the last AX???
PSS - Can we get back to disagreeing....I am more comfortable with that

[kary]

I'm on the side of Jad's list.

For example, it always goes through my mind to not blow the last corner of the first timed lap. If you blow the last corner of the first lap, then you can totally screw your time for both laps. Thoughts like that heighten your senses. They release endorphins. They charge you with energy.

People can choke all weekend as well as within two laps. Remember the pressure people feel is due to their competitors posting times that are challenging for them to compete with.

I always liked seeing some folks post nothing times all weekend long only to put on fresh tires and a "go for it" attitude on the last two runs of the weekend. They shatter their best time by multiple seconds and then say "wow, that lap really came together". Yeah, right

I do not find that very interesting at all. I agree with Tim and Mike, it is far more interesting to watch times all weekend having fun doing it and challenging one another. to be better. BTW, choking is only possible if you think about choking. If you drive the entire weekend like you do in timing, then it is not an issue.

On another note, for those that do not want to post a time during the weekend the POC offered a time trail session like normal. As you can see only a few showed up for the that session.

The folks that want to socialize and teach can do so without affecting the rest of the group...but then you might be worried someone is posting a great time on Saturday

[Mike]

Knock this idea around if we were to use the new system...

What if winners were announced Saturday eve and then Sunday start over on a second timed event? As BB said It could make Saturday more than a DE with bragging rights.

It would be basically two TT events in one weekend. POC has done it in the past at SOW, reversing direction on the second day.

Points could be split in half for the two days or just run it as two separate full points’ events.

Wait till you hear the TT relay idea....4 car teams....4 or 5 teams on the track at the same time... TT passing rules. Each team runs 16 laps, each member runs 4 laps. Before the start each team would have a combined estimated 16 lap time that would be adjusted to match the other teams estimated 16 lap time so that all teams would finish at the same time. Estimated lap times would be based on times recorded that day. The Winners would be the team that is most consistant and can run closest to their previously recorded lap times. Kinda of a TT but with rewards for team work and consistant lap times.
Dave B at TRE gave me the idea, he is in charge of Tribute this year and has organized the TT relay concept in the past. Just something else to knock around.

Maybe there are more interesting things that can be done instead of just grinding out practice laps all day Saturday for bragging rights at the dinner table that night.
For example on any race weekend. Saturday you get one maybe two warm up sessions, a qualifying session and then a race. Sunday you’ll see a warm up maybe another or straight to a qualifying session and another race. Over the entire weekend only 2 or 3 sessions are practice only.

Enhancements like these might create interest and increase participation.
Edited for grammer.

[gulf911]

Mike,
I have to say I really like the TT relay idea! I got dibs on Mike and his car for my team!! I only say this because Mike will need a handicap...

Is this something we could do in the future? I am definately interested.

[Curt]

Mike,
Where do we sign up for the TT relay race. That sounds like alot of fun!

The only problem will be when we stand in line and the captains start picking teams. Now I'll find out how Dan must have felt in grade school when they were picking teams for dodgeball.

Although back when Dan was in grade school they used a rock as the dodgeball.

[ajackson]

Allowing people to do it either way is a good idea. All the arguing in online forums is moot when 90% of people vote for one method by action.

[gulf911]

Mike,
Where do we sign up for the TT relay race. That sounds like alot of fun!

The only problem will be when we stand in line and the captains start picking teams. Now I'll find out how Dan must have felt in grade school when they were picking teams for dodgeball.

Although back when Dan was in grade school they used a rock as the dodgeball.

Even when putting himself down he finds it necessary to throw me under the bus...thats just not right...

[Dan Chambers]

Chiming in.

for the SDR, the Time-Trial timing program .... where timed laps are segregated at the end of the weekend..... isn't broken.

We've had this discussion before, recently. Was it not made clear at that time that most of the drivers who post here (and the majority of the drivers who don't bother with the forum) like the current system? It certainly was clear to me that very, very few drivers at the TT level were looking for a change, based on all the drivers I've spoken with. The overwhelming attitude I've gotten from people while I've been at these event is: "It ain't broke, so don't try to fix it."

I would fear that making changes, especially regarding timed runs, would potentially frighten TT drivers away who like the current system. The TT program cannot afford to frighten drivers away. The program's solvency and future depend on encouraging new drivers and keeping the veterans coming back. Changing the system to experiment for fun, or please a small handful of veteran drivers who also compete in other clubs, could be fiscally detrimental to a program that dances a razor's edge of fiscal success, especially in the start of a new season. (Yes, I recognize that at year's end, the TT program made a profit. I don't discount that fact.)

I don't want to discourage creative thinking in the club. Kary is always looking for new ideas to make the programs more interesting. Good on 'im. I don't want to sound like a nay-sayer either. I do want everyone to consider the benefit of the majority vs. the experimentation and entertainment of the few.

As to safety, Jad pointed out in more than one of his punch list items the indirect encouragement reckless per-lap best times could promote. As someone who drives one of the slowest cars Porsche built, I have seen overly agressive behaviors exhibited right in front of me from the co-Instructors in my Orange run group experience. This behavior has been seen at events that don't count each lap as significant towards competitive times. They have been in practive runs. I won't want to think of how these same drivers may behave if they knew every lap counted. I, for one, would not want to risk someone too close to my back-end, or diving into corners to get my "slower-than-they-are" stock-based car out of their way. I'd simply stop participating in the events. I'm a class winning, Instructing, competitive driver who trust his skills. Yet, I'd not attend, because I couldn't trust the other guy/gal, knowing he or she was going balls-to-the-walls at every lap. It's just not worth the trophy at the end of the day/year.

The system works. Let's keep it for now, and keep the participation numbers growing. If we run into... (Oops! bad term for TT's) .... experience a situation where we're running out of time at the events, we can consider changes at that time.

Jack, Jeff, and Mike are doing a great job with the current system. Keep it up, guys!

Note: These are my personal opinions, and may or may not reflect the opinions of others in the club. They do not necessarily reflect those opinions of any Board members.

Dan C.

[Dan Chambers]

I always liked seeing some folks post nothing times all weekend long only to put on fresh tires and a "go for it" attitude on the last two runs of the weekend. They shatter their best time by multiple seconds and then say "wow, that lap really came together". Yeah, right

Kary, a quick look at my TT experience in your own data base indicates my best laps for the event are always the second-to-last or last lap of the event. Sometimes, I've topped my consistant practice laps by as much as 5.5 seconds. That has happened at Buttonwillow, California Speedway, SOW, and most A-X's. Do people really do their best laps at the end of the event, during segregated timed runs? People do.....

DC

[Carl Scragg]

I prefer the current timing system. It creates an added excitement/tension in being required to drive at your best when the green flag drops.

I really like Mike's suggestion of turning some of our 2-day events into two 1-day events by running the tracks in different directions/configurations on Saturday and Sunday. It appears to me that many of our drivers have had more than enough practice laps and tend to sit out Sunday morning sessions. It would be pretty exciting to practice through the morning and early afternoons, and then have timed runs in the late afternoon each day.

[bobbrand]

By the way, didn't we do this at the Fontana time trial last year.
Remember --- we all got staged in the last run session according to best practice time. I was staged with the two boxter S guys - Bernie and Mike D. Then we went out and followed each other around with the transponders recording the best time. I have a bunch of video of Bernie passing me, and Mike passing Bernie, and me passing them. From the video, you would never have guessed the end result. That is that Bernie won, I came in second, and Mike third -- at least in our little group. Given the experience, I still prefer the old way.

[Mike]

Ok I know you are going to like this...
night time TT timed laps?

So just save some of the ideas for a rainy day.