can I run a Ferrari 355 or 360 at the AX and DE's

[David J Marguglio]

Okay, we are way off topic (but on to something very interesting) so I will start a new string regarding X-cars.

[jack miller]

Kary, we agree about the difficulty in driving the GT3, although I didn't think the car would give someone a false sense of confidence. I thought it was pretty twitchy and, with the kind of power it has, I would think most novices would be somewhat intimidated. Of course, that is presuming a rational novice.

Glenn, as for the 355, I don't remember what features it had, sorry. I just remember it being big, balanced, relatively quick and a fair amount of grip for a car with street tires (can't remember what kind).

Mike, you're doing great with the Boxster, but you probably are getting spoiled driving such a mellow car.

[kary]

Jack, all the people I know that track GT3's on big tracks (3 people) found the car to be fast, easy to drive, and felt very comfortable with the car. This comfort level is based upon how far you push the car so that comfort level is relative. Those that have crashed no longer feel that comfort from my observations because they found the limit.

As far as twichy, I never found the car to be twicthy of the 2 I have experienced. I just find that they can react adversely if you are not paying attention. I think you probably drove the car near its edge and perhaps are not that familar with the car. The few racers I know that run Cup cars felt the same way until they got use to the cars. Now they like them and think nothing is any different. They are tricky, fast cars that demand expereinced drivers if you want to push them to their edge, period. I think we can agree to that statement?

[Robert]

Rob. B, let's talk to Joe about getting that garage queen out there.

When Joe lived back east, we took his 360 (completely stock except for Pagid oranges) and 965 to Watkins Glen. My recollection is that the 360 was definitely fast, but soft on the suspension side, very much set up for pure street driving. He didn't feel as connected to the road as he did in the 965. I was too chicken to drive it at the time (especially after looping the 965 once heading into the bus stop). Oh, and it was snowing a bit.

The race versions of the 360 that were at the Tribute in Fontana seemed like they were doing quite well. Although that may have been due to the hand wax job they got between each run session.

Robert

[Rich Murphy]

I just got a 2004 GT3 (1600 miles) and I must say that the car is a bit intimidating but not difficult to drive. It is hard to get used to the capabilities of the car -- where you are used to getting a bit of a slide the car just sticks and I am having a hard time getting any experience with sliding the car on the street -- I need to bring it out to the track where I can explore it a bit more and get comfortable with the levels of adhesion. I would love to spend some time on a skidpad with it. You are much more isolated from the car than with an early 911 (my 69) and it is a bit difficult to feel when it is sliding. The power of the car is enormous and it is difficult to keep the under the legal limit. I don't leave home with out radar protection. I bought the car in Dallas and drove it home in all sorts of weather and on all sorts of roads. Even in driving rain, the car sticks much better than you would expect. I really like the xenon headlights (not originally on my option list) for night mountain driving. The car is amazingly capable, confortable and I even averaged 24MPG the whole way home from Dallas.

As for a comparision, there are numerous magazine articles comparing the track performance of the GT3 with other cars. Basically, the GT3 is on par with the 360 Challenge Stradale and significantly quicker than the 360 Modena (standard model) or the 355. Plus, Porsche's traditional reliability has got to be better than Ferrari -- although Ferrari is doing much better these days.

The GT3 is (as previously stated) much different mechanically than the standard 996. The engine is completely different with lighter valvetrain components, lighter pistons, titanium rods etc. that raise the redline to 8,200 RPM. The exhaust is different and uses special metallic catalysts. The gearbox has interchangeable ratios on gears 2-6 with steel synchros on gears 3-4-5 for competition use and a different shifter mechanism. The gearbox also has an external lubrication pump that sprays oil onto the gears to cool them. The brakes are bigger (350mm front/330mm rear) with six piston calipers up front (stay away from the hugely expensive ceramic brakes -- the rotors are $6,875 each from your friendly Porsche dealer). The body shell is reinforced and stiffer than the 996. The sway bars are adjustable and the front suspension is mounted in metal mounts to reduce deflection. The aerodynamics are different and the rear wing can be adjusted for more/less downforce.

One of these days I will learn how to drive it!

Rich

[kary]

I instructed in the auto-x this weekend and the car I was assigned was a GT3. Having been in a GT3 on big tracks and then on auto-x tracks I have to say that the GT3 is deceptively quick, in a bad way. Here are a few examples from the auto-x.

First, the car accelerates very quickly without you really realizing it. Then suddenly you realize that you need to brake and make the next turn. Unfortunately with the poor road surface at the stadium, and the instant speed you just obtained, there really is little time. Even with the big brakes (which are really useless in an auto-x) you can't brake too late if you want to make the turn. Yes, I know, you should brake earlier, but this example is just the symptom of how comfortable drivers of this car become and then it is too late.

Another example in the auto-x is the large amount of horsepower and torque the car produces. This cars throttle, if not feathered properly coming out of corners, regardless of limited slip power oversteered very abruptly. This occurred multiple times even after talking about this behavior prior to getting on the track. The strange part about this is at the auto-x it really did not take much to throttle oversteer the car as I was watching the engine RPM's as it was happening and there we were sliding sideways coming out of corners with the inevitable tank slap back the other way when the throttle lift happened. So here is another symptom that occurs and is not readily apparent until the driver gets to the limit and then are surprised by how the car reacts!

[jgunn]

You think the GT3 power slides!! Try a GT2.

Of course the GT2 I have been driving had Kumhos and I have spent a bunch of time testing and tuning it.

I am sure you could get the GT3 to work very nicely with stickier tires and a bit of work on the suspension (alignment, ride height & sway bar settings). The settings for the GT3 are probably not too different than what I arrived at for the GT2.

James

[kary]

James, a GT2 or a GT3 in your hands is quite a different thing than new drivers who have just bought these GT3's

[jgunn]

Certainly. Definitely a lot of car for anyone to handle, let alone a novice.

[Bob Gagnon]

The few laps I have taken in a GT3 at an auto-x (Russ Dickerson's) have been exactly as Kary describes. The power is mesmerizing compared to my car and you have to really think: "braking point" as soon as you get the car accelerating down a straight. The car did seem a little bit of a handful but I did not drive enough to really form a critical opinion.

One thing though is that the GT3 I drove had the alignment way off what you would want for any driving events. Although in spec, the car had the limits of the spec demonstrated side to side and front to rear, for example minimum negative camber right front, max left front, in spec but not equal. Ride height and toe was also off. This is apparently common on GT3's.

Russ says the car is now much nicer to drive after it was set up carefully with max neg all round, minimum front toe and max rear toe with ride height on the low side of spec. Still in spec but equal and on the performance side of the specs. I have not driven the car since it's alignment