Zone 7 Vs. Zone 8 test

[mrondeau]

Do a trial run at the next ax. People that are interested ,classify your cars before the event( Accurately), tape it on, and at the end of the day we will see how it worked out.

I'm running in GP at the next AX and according to the Zone 7 classifications, I'll be in AX9 Class. I'm interested to see how it stacks up against our current 1-2 cars per class/BRI system. The more drivers who do this, the better we'll be able to see how it stacks up...or down.

Here's the link to the classification system if you're interested.

http://comp.pca-ggr.org/classification_ ... /index.php

Come on in, the waters fine.

[Jad]

I should be in AX11 with the new cab. Hope to see you there!

Of course, if we just dropped the -L classes from our rules, it would help reduce the unused classes significantly

[Gary Burch]

I will be in AX12

[mrondeau]

I should be in AX11 with the new cab. Hope to see you there!

Jad, You should be in AX8 in a stock 997S with Factory Wheels and treadwear of 200+

[gulf911]

Of course, if we just dropped the -L classes from our rules, it would help reduce the unused classes significantly

Yes Jad, but where would you run then?

[AGill]

Thanks for officially putting this together, Mark...should be interesting. I am in AX8 with only 10 points to spare before I jump to AX7. If I was to "optimize" my car based on this system I would go to a 10 inch rear wheel with same tire size, put stock air cover back on, go back to stock mufflers and then use those 30 points saved towards better tires. Or, I could do the same changes above and drop to AX9 (with you Mark) but keep my tires at 200tw or more...I would be pretty much optimized for AX9 at that point. So...the way I see it, my car as it stands should run pretty close (within a second or so assuming the best 200tw tire would gain me that time) of the top AX9 cars...assuming similar driving ability and depending on what car the track favors more. Additionally, I should not be very competitive in AX8 compared to cars that are optimized for that class.

Adam Gill Base Points Mod Points Total Points
370 270 640
Car: 993 C4S (1996-1998) Car Number: 115

Displacement: 3,600 cc (stock) Wheels: Front Width: 8.0 Rear Width: 11.0

Class: AX8 Gender: M
Home PCA Region: Golden Gate
Question# Question Points
1. Wheels - Points automatically assessed based on the values input for wheel widths. 140
3a. Tires with DOT wear rating 200 or greater 0
33. Transmission has a limited slip differential, stock or non-stock 30
43. Air cleaner or housing, or air inlet ducting is not stock. 5
55b. The engine has a non-stock muffler 5
57. The car has non-stock sway bars 30
65. The car has non-stock springs or torsion bars 45
74. The suspension has non-stock suspension bushes not covered in item 70 15

[kleggo]

Thanks for officially putting this together, Mark...should be interesting.

Adam Gill Base Points Mod Points Total Points
370 270 640
Car: 993 C4S (1996-1998) Car Number: 115

i'll play also

Car Model: 993 C4S 1996-1998
Base Points: (TT)370.00, (AX)370.00
Modification Points: (TT)230.00, (AX)275.00
Total Points: (TT)600.00, (AX)645.00
Car Class: TT9, AX8

hmmmmmmm wonder why we differ by 5 points?

i must be sandbagging.

[ttweed]

I'm running in GP at the next AX and according to the Zone 7 classifications, I'll be in AX9 Class.

My FP car points out at 730 in the GGR system, which puts it in AX6 class. In our system, it is one class below yours, Mark, but in their system I am 3 classes above you, along with a 996 GT3 and 997 Turbo. That doesn't seem fair to me, and maybe I could use the update/backdate rule to lower its class somehow, but I don't really understand what is allowed under their system, so I didn't try. If I put my 205 tires on 6" rims instead of 7" and put up with more tread squirm, I could get down to AX7--still two classes higher than yours, and 5 classes above Gary's, who usually runs about the same times as I do in his FS car.

I get hammered far beyond it's value for the engine swap in my car, it seems to me. It moves me up 4 classes by itself. The good news is i could take the 75 lbs. of lead ballast out that I've been running, but I don't think that would give me much more than a half a second a lap. If we adopted these rules, I'd sell the car and start over. It wouldn't be the first time for that, either.

TT

[Gary Burch]

I could get down to AX7--still two classes higher than yours, and 5 classes above Gary's, who usually runs about the same times as I do in his FS car.

TT

Tom,
Aren't you running old, hard, Hoosiers? (At least that's what you tell me) Wouldn't better tires dramatically improve your times and for the same points total.

[ttweed]

Tom,
Aren't you running old, hard, Hoosiers? (At least that's what you tell me) Wouldn't better tires dramatically improve your times and for the same points total.

Ya. I might be able to pick up a couple of seconds with fresh V710s, but 6 classes different than your car is a little more than that, I think.

I'll stop whining now.

TT

[mrondeau]

I'm running in GP at the next AX and according to the Zone 7 classifications, I'll be in AX9 Class.

My FP car points out at 730 in the GGR system, which puts it in AX6 class. In our system, it is one class below yours, Mark, but in their system I am 3 classes above you, along with a 996 GT3 and 997 Turbo. That doesn't seem fair to me, and maybe I could use the update/backdate rule to lower its class somehow, but I don't really understand what is allowed under their system, so I didn't try. If I put my 205 tires on 6" rims instead of 7" and put up with more tread squirm, I could get down to AX7--still two classes higher than yours, and 5 classes above Gary's, who usually runs about the same times as I do in his FS car.

I get hammered far beyond it's value for the engine swap in my car, it seems to me. It moves me up 4 classes by itself. The good news is i could take the 75 lbs. of lead ballast out that I've been running, but I don't think that would give me much more than a half a second a lap. If we adopted these rules, I'd sell the car and start over. It wouldn't be the first time for that, either.

TT

Tom,

Fill out the online form and see where it would put you. It seems to me that you are taking a bigger hit on your motor swap than you should. In their rules, up to 1000CC displacement increase is 150 pts or less. According to our rules, a 1000 cc increase is about 20 points. I think they use the online form because it's easier to use and there's the ability for everyone to check out the competition's points and see where they are using their points or perhaps, not claiming them.

Your car should be at or within one class of mine depending on tires in my opinion. Keep in mind that I'm at 14 points in GP.

[Speedy]

I should be in AX11 with the new cab. Hope to see you there!

Of course, if we just dropped the -L classes from our rules, it would help reduce the unused classes significantly

Jad,
I like totally agree with you, like for sure!
In almost ALL Ladies classes, it is an easy class to win and often there is no competition.
WHY? So that the lady can go home with a medal & at the end of the year receive an undeserved trophy?
I can understand that someone may not have another person within their class to compete with. However, to simply create another class because there are woman in the club- OMG!
I see no reason for there to be a ladies class. This is a sport in which both man and woman can compete with one another equally. Muscle and endurance are not a factor.
One might say that ladies have an advantage; in that they typically weigh less than the men.
Get rid of all those "L" classes and allow the ladies to truly compete. The novice class is always an option for those that do not wish to compete!

[LUCKY DAVE]

I'm in too.
David Malmberg ( )
Base Points

Mod Points

Total Points
Car: 944 Turbo/Turbo S (1988-1990)
Car Number: 208

320 base

400 mods

720 total
Displacement: 2,490 cc (75 mod points)
Wheels: Front Width: 9.0

Rear Width: 9.0
Class: AX6
Gender: M
Home PCA Region: Other

[stevemckay]

O.K. I'M IN @ a/x13,I think.Pure stock 89 951.probably the only one!

[ttweed]

Tom,
Fill out the online form and see where it would put you. It seems to me that you are taking a bigger hit on your motor swap than you should.

I did use the online form, Mark, I just deleted my entry after doing it, since I didn't think they would want their system cluttered up with cars that are never going to compete in their region.

This is what their rules says about my type of engine swap:
The engine has the same number of cylinders as stock but this engine type # was not available in the same bodyshell group.
ACTION : Go back to the base model choice and select lowest base point model available for the year of the Vin # and in the same bodyshell group
ACTION : Go back to the engine capacity table and select the correct option for capacity increase. Answer all engine modification options as deviations from the stock configuration of the engine type for the base model now selected.
The last sentence says to me that I must also take points for everything that is different about my SC engine compared to a stock '65-68 911 2-liter. So in addition to the 150 points for displacement, I also have to take the 15 points for throttle body change and 10 points for induction system change (CIS injection vs. carbs), making a total of 175 points for the swap. Our Zone 8 rules distinguish between a "stock" engine swap and a custom engine build by calculating points based on HP alone, vs. calculating them on displacement change plus individual component changes. This means that if you are going to change engines, you may as well go with a "full boat" custom build, and discourages the relatively easy and inexpensive stock engine swaps that are so common with the early cars. A stock 3.0SC engine makes 180 HP, while a custom race engine of the same displacement could make 250-260 HP easily, while being penalized the same number of points under the GGR system. This is one of the reasons I like our system better.

I was surprised that in their system there are higher penalties for autox in more categories than there are for TT. An LSD is penalized twice as much for AX than for TT cars. This makes no sense to me, as the stability under braking of an LSD is far more useful on the big track at higher speeds than it is in an autox in a low-powered, well set-up car. Weight reductions in particular seem to be penalized much more for AX, even though they are nearly as beneficial in TT. My car has 475 mod points for TT, but 530 for AX. Adding the base 170 for a 65-68 911, I end up in TT8 but AX6. It would not be competitive in either of those classes, from what I can see.

I may be in the minority, but I don't see their rules as being any big improvement over what we have, just different. As I said before, if the beef is that we have too many classes and not enough competition in some, I would look at consolidating classes instead.

TT