Chuckwalla May DE & TT Registration Now Open!

[Robert]

May 19-20 running counterclockwise. Last event before the summer break. Sign up at http://msreg.us/CW0512.

[mrondeau]

Looking forward to running the opposite direction this time. If you haven't run Chuckwalla yet, you're missing out. It's incredibly fun to drive and has the best surface of any track I've been on.

[Mike]

Agree Mark Chuckwalla is the best surface in So Cal.
But that new track surface feeling may only last 7/8 years…look at Bumpywillow now.

Has PCA ever considered timing with transponders the same way as POC?
Can anyone answer this question?
Why are we the only track group that does single car timing on Sunday?

How we do timing is determined/dictated by national, so we really don't have a choice.
National determines the rules that dictate whether or not we can get insurance...

Thank you Tom!
Here's a video of CCW.
It is considered the downhill direction.
Mostly decreasing radius turns.
Warning X car in car video.
http://youtu.be/ixENUntyMRk

[Jad]

I prefer the PCA system. You have 10 other sessions with traffic, it is nice to have a couple laps to drive at 100% without other cars.

Plus, you can brag about TTOD on Saturday anyway as they are posted. I vote status quo.

[pdy]

Mike:

The "POC system" you refer to is PDS (formerly Short-Track Series), which is the POC entry-level event.
For Time Trials, the POC Format is essentially the same as PCA, with practice sessions involving passing,
and staged/gridded cars so as to produce clear laps for timing.

[Mike]

I vote status quo.

at any rate no one is agreeing to 2 or 3 events in the red a year.
I'm just trying to give everyone more pie.

One day hitters can leave San Diego 3am at the track by 7 with a gas stop, home by 9pm.

CVR CCW post yer vids!
http://vimeo.com/16428967

ymmv I was told not uncommon for new sequential drivers to snap 1 or 2 new gear boxes.
this video was after 156 had just repaired the gearbox for first time in a 4 month old car.
In this vid mine had last heat cycle junk r rated tires, funny really.
the now experienced pilot of 156 leaves me 3 or 4 turns a lap today.

[Cajundaddy]

Has PCA ever considered timing with transponders the same way as POC?
Can anyone answer this question?
Why are we the only track group that does single car timing on Sunday?

I am disappointed because I see lost potential SDR PCA TT revenue.

I'll be in for Saturday only, I would stay for Sunday if timing procedures were similar to POC.
Believe me the SDR PCA culture generates no false hopes of any changes/improvements or even meaningful discussion about TT procedures.
If SDR PCA would like to stop losing money on half these events maybe the board should consider these issues.
As it was in January, again PCA will only get half my entry money because of our old inefficient Sunday style timing format.
I understand the charge for timing on Sundays, but why choose to use a system that reduces Sunday track time too?
If you want to increase Sunday entries give us more value/track time on Sundays.
I would be very interested in discussion that supports our unique and out of date timing procedures.

If we timed it like POC you could market the event as a double points weekend, time both days and change direction the second day.
If you had the resources pre grid cars based on lap times for each session, then you’ll really be flying!
With some fine tuning all the PCA TT events will once again be money makers!

Our PCA procedure that requires one warm up and 2 hot laps is a waste of a heat cycle on my slicks.
My Porsche prefers to run for 30 minutes not 3 laps.

There seem to be a lot of misunderstandings here Mike. PCA and POC run a nearly identical format for TTs. The only real difference is you will generally get in a lot more laps with the PCA because you are not sharing the track with club racing run groups. PCA also usually has 4 run groups for DE/TT vs 1-2 at POC so cars are more closely matched in performance and lap times. Less time driving around those old guys in 2.5L Boxsters POC has an excellent racing development program but for DE/TT you will get more quality laps per $$$ with PCA. The PCA grid is also pretty full this year.
JMNSHO

[Mike]

Dave good big picture points POC or SDR PCA weekend same amount of seat time.
POC at SOW has a TT both days and with a direction change too so why dont we try it?
imho SDR PCA Saturday is just an HPDE, Sunday is more like a Day away from work AX.
If thats the best we can do yo comprende.

[Mike]

I prefer the PCA system. You have 10 other sessions with traffic, it is nice to have a couple laps to drive at 100% without other cars.

oh well thats where were different, I can live with a chance of traffic anytime.
fwiw Spring Mtn will not rent the track to SDR with our current single car system.

If both day$ had $ame $eat time at Chuckwalla I'd $tay a night for $unday, just $ayin.

[ChuckS]

Might as well add some fuel to the fire!

We run both PCA and POC Time Trials, although we have run far fewer with POC.

The main difference is that POC runs each day as a separate TT.

POC
The advantage of that is you can run two events in a weekend or just run one day. But the one day cost is significant - see below.
The disadvantage is that you get much less actual track time with POC TT. Each day is run like the PCA Sunday schedule, so there are fewer run sessions.
The timing method and execution is basically the same.
They do grid the cars FOR EACH TT SESSION based on previous session times. This helps with the traffic issues and yields much less interference from slower or faster cars making more enjoyable sessions. It however, does take two extra people (who need to really know what they are doing ) to manage it which is a big issue. It also requires you to get to grid well in advance of the start (to get gridded) or be forced to start at the back. This creates dead time.
POC is also well known for shortening the TT sessions rather than the race sessions if off schedule due to a breakdown on track or wreck or clean-up. Race groups given priority.
Disadvantage is only one TT run group until VERY recently where they experimented with two groups (with great success), but no promise to keep doing that.
Advantage - on some tracks could do different directions each day. I have only ever seen this one time at Buttonwillow.
Disadvantage - Cost is significantly more for TT than with PCA. PDS weekends are less.
Can't really do a single day TT from a cost perspective as base "cost" is for the weekend with small additions for TT Times.
Can do both Race and TT on a weekend.

PCA
Disadvantage is only one "result" for the weekend and that you would have to attend on Sunday to get the one result.
Advantage is maximum time on the track for the two days. This is big.
The Saturday one day option would be considered only as a DE.
Disadvantage is no gridding (except for timed runs), so more potential interference with faster or slower cars.
Advantage is 3 or 4 run groups to keep performance differences normally within a small band.
Disadvantage - can not do two directions, one for each day.
Advantage - two day TT is less $$ than POC, although not as good of a deal as pre-2010 and not as cheap as other organizations track days.

I would like the timed runs to be from an open session like we do at Cal Speedway. However, I realize that (1) this is not how time trials have traditionall been run (by any organization that I am aware of) and that (2) Most of the tracks do not lend themselves to everyone getting a fair chance at two clean laps in an open run session and that (3) the only reason we do it at Cal Speedway is that we need to in order to get the timing done in an acceptable amount of time.

Now that I have created a monster, I look forward to seeing everybody at Chuckwalla - and hopefully, if I can get the Turbo set up this time, I can finally win with it!!
I think Chuckwalla is my favorite track by far!

[Mike]

Chuck thanks for expaining everything to me.

My concept is simple, just run PCA Sunday the same as PCA Saturday.
My Autopia experiance was more enjoyable when seat time was the same regardless what day.
When can we start construction on the CVR to Indio monorail?

[tb911]

How we do timing is determined/dictated by national, so we really don't have a choice.
National determines the rules that dictate whether or not we can get insurance...

[Mike]

How we do timing is determined/dictated by national, so we really don't have a choice.
National determines the rules that dictate whether or not we can get insurance...

Nation wide thanks Tom, that answers a lot of questions.
I see an SLC dream week in your future.
http://parade2012.pca.org/

[richard]

Traffic?? I feel half the fun is having traffic when times are comparable. YYou get to see real time where your are faster or slower, when you lose or gain time on braking.

[Jad]

I agree traffic is fun for 9-10 sessions, but it also fun to have 2 clean laps to see what you really can do The car can't take an entire session of driving that hard, so even if I had the full 20-30 minute session, I could only play for about 5 minutes at 100%.