ttweed wrote:Cajundaddy wrote:3. Tire compounds are under-rated in terms of performance. An increase in points is warranted relative to other mods in terms of points. A good set of 50 tires might be worth 5sec on a 90sec course. I can't think of any other 4 pt mods that would come close to this.
This seems to come up in some form every year. It has been recognized by everyone for a long time that the penalty for race tires is not equivalent to the resulting decrease in lap times. Yes, tires are the single most important improvement you can make for performance driving. Yes, the tires of today are better than the tires in the day that this rule was created. That doesn't mean that the rule should be changed in order to make all penalties proportional and equivalent. That would be a very difficult proposition under any circumstances, and needless to boot. The fact is that almost everyone who does this sport of performance driving for any length of time replaces their hard, stock tires with either R-compound or increased performance street tires of 140-200 treadwear. If everyone has the mod, it doesn't matter if it is 1 point or 10, the playing field is level. This is why no increase in points for them is necessary, and would actually be detrimental. Too many people have optimized their cars for a class by counting on the same tire points that have been in place for years. To raise the point penalty for tires now would cause people to be bumped into a higher class by a mere 2 points or so, rendering them uncompetitive or forcing them to decontent their car to remain in their intended class. There is something to be said for "rules stability." Without raising the point maximum for every class by 2 points at the same time, increasing the penalty by 2 points for a mod that almost everyone outside of the SS class has already done will cause anyone who has optimized their car by the existing rules to be bumped up in class. This will cause needless grief to solve a non-existent problem.
I would like to hear from the people who feel that they are being treated unfairly because they haven't spent their points on tires and others have. How many are there? What did you choose from the "cafeteria" of possible improvements instead? Please speak up. Shall we also handicap the 140-200 high performance street tires again, too? They certainly are faster than the 300-400 treadwear high-mileage tires. What about the people who want to use those to save money? Shouldn't they have parity? Where does it stop? Do we update the rule each year as tires improve, adding points as lap times drop? Are we going to suggest handicapping by brand again (ref: the evil Hoosier argument)? This proposal may be well-intentioned, but it is impractical to implement completely and fairly, and creates unintended consequences for our class structure. I will be sending in my comments opposing it to the Rules committee.
TT
All the people who want to stay in street stock but are bumped into stock or higher for one reason or another (e.g. 993 C4S, cars with PASM, M030, etc, etc) are being treated unfairly “because they haven't spent their points on tires and others have.” These people haven’t really “spent” any points at all, the points they have came on their “as delivered from the factory” car. They are forced into a class where other cars have aftermarket mods and street tires. You really can’t compare an “as delivered from the factory” car to a car with sticky tires and some aftermarket mods, but the rules force it to happen. A 993 C4S with 10 points is slower than a base model car with no points other than the tires, yet it’s in the production class. A Boxster or Cayman with PASM is slower than a base model car with no points other than tires, but the rules force the “as delivered from the factory” Boxster into the stock class.
Those people who have made a simple aftermarket mod, and not even necessarily for performance, are also being treated unfairly “because they haven't spent their points on tires and others have.” Some examples are lowering springs (to eliminate the fender gap), an aftermarket wing or front air dam (for looks), or replacing worn factory shocks with aftermarket shocks. Yes, these mods marginally increase performance, but not near what tires do. These people are bumped from SS into stock, and now they are forced to have tires and other mods in order to be competitive. All these owners want to do is one simple mod for looks that happens to marginally increase performance, and now they need all 8 points, including tires, to be competitive.
Look around the pits at your next autocross and see how many people are in stock or higher but are on street tires. There are a lot of them, because there are a lot of things that bump you from SS. Look at all the proposals addressing this issue (what things bump you from street stock). There are enough people that are affected by this to generate all these proposals. The reason that this comes up in some form every year is that affects a lot of people. Perhaps it should finally be addressed.
You mention that tires are “a mod that almost everyone outside of the SS class has already done.” The reason a lot of people have done this is because they must do it in order to be competitive. If tires were not a “must have,” fewer people would have them. There are a lot of people that want to stay in street stock, but are forced out, and then they must have the tires. Even so, there are still a lot of people above SS on street tires.
The rules are supposed to discourage modification, yet they force many people into the stock or prepared class, which forces them to mod their car to be competitive. You should be able to have an “as delivered from the factory car,” or even a car with one minor aftermarket mod, and not be uncompetitive because you haven’t done 8 points of mods including tires.
Your statement applies in spec racing as well... 
When I instruct such a person, I always try to soothe their frustration and mitigate their expectations by explaining that it is a difficult skill to learn and takes a lot of time and practice. It's part of the instructor's job to make them feel welcome, comfortable, and that it is perfectly natural to be slow when you are a beginner. 
). I think that’s how a lot of us got started, and that is also the root of local club level AX (which is where the idea of “discouraging modification” came from). There is no other place as safe AX to push your daily driver to the limit, not even DE’s. There are far more events than just AX for those of you with highly modified cars or who trailer your car to the event. For those of us on daily drivers, AX is pretty much the only venue available.
). The only things I have done to it from a competitive standpoint is: