911 Engine drop "party" Saturday 2/20 in Escondido

[MTrotter]

Good point Paul. ha ha the year slipped by me.

[efhughes3]

I'm pretty sure I knew it was a Carrera..... I'm not sure of the nomenclature on the run classes. IS, sounded right, but now that I think about it, V is what I'm in. I think it was VP actually.

It's chipped too, and I'm sure I've left a few things out, suspension-pretty much no where near stock anymore.

[gocart]

Isn't it another 4 points for changing the chip in the DME? That would have to be done to match the other upgrades, right?

[efhughes3]

That was my point above, it is chipped now and will be further remapped.

[Dan Chambers]

Dan: Your 3.6 alone is worth 15 points (if it's a bone-stock 964 engine). That leaves you only 5 points remaining for any
other enhancements on the Pearl to stay in IP (wing = 2, suspension = 2+, tires = 2+) - good luck!

Hmmm. I guess I read this one a little differently.

I changed my displacement by 0.6L; from 3.0L to 3.6L. According to "J" in Section III of "Assessment of Modification Points" it indicated the % X 36 criteria. It does not indicate how that displacement is changed. It only states:

"Engine displacement increase:

Percentage of engine displacement increase multiplied by 36 = total points.

For sums ending in more than a whole number, round to the next highest whole number."

S0 .6 divided by 3.0 times 36 = 7.2 ... round up to 8 points. Ooooh I like that! (of course I like all kind of dreaming, right?)

I don't see any language about " built out from original engine" or "as developed from stock engine" or "as derived from ...."

All I see is "Engine displacement increase." Well, that's what I've done; increase the engine's displacement. (Okay, so I'm trying to sound like Norbert Singer here... )



I s'pose I'll have a chat with the Competition Committee and the Rules Committee and Rules Chair about "interpretation" of what looks like maybe an ambiguous statement of the "Engine displacement increase" phrase to get more clarity. (Of course, I know where I'm headed .... strait to AR-3 with 5000 points ). Until then I'll just run in X class, or maybe AM (with Dan Andrews) just so I don't bump anyone from their beloved points.

See you down the road ....

[ttweed]

I changed my displacement by 0.6L; from 3.0L to 3.6L. According to "J" in Section III of "Assessment of Modification Points" it indicated the % X 36 criteria. It does not indicate how that displacement is changed.

Dan-
If you did a stock engine swap, you don't even consider the displacement change in calculating the points. You calculate the HP difference instead. A 3.0 SC engine is 180HP. If you used a stock 964 3.6 engine in the swap, I believe the Porsche published HP spec is 247 (someone correct me if I am wrong--I don't know the later cars well). You use Sec III K. to calculate the points, not Sec J. The formula is HP difference (247-180=67) x .22 = 14.74, rounded up to 15. This is what Paul is talking about. You have 5 points left to play with in IP. Add 6 more, and you are in Improved. If you have 2 for aero (rear wing), 2 for torsion bars, and two for sway bars, then you are already there, even running a SS tire of 140+ treadwear.

If you made any modifications at all to the 964 engine (other than headers, which are free), then you would use the displacement formula along with all the other relevant mods in Section III Parts E through J to calculate the point total for the engine. These would include induction (4), cams (5) and heads (5), as well as the 8 points for displacement increase, for a total of 22 points for the engine alone, putting you instantly into II. It is easy to see from this how a stock engine swap is preferable.

TT

[mrondeau]

Dan,

Now that you're in II, you might as well get really wide 710's, a big wing and all the other go fast goodies. Vrooom!!

[Dan Chambers]

I changed my displacement by 0.6L; from 3.0L to 3.6L. According to "J" in Section III of "Assessment of Modification Points" it indicated the % X 36 criteria. It does not indicate how that displacement is changed.

Dan-
If you did a stock engine swap, you don't even consider the displacement change in calculating the points. You calculate the HP difference instead. A 3.0 SC engine is 180HP. If you used a stock 964 3.6 engine in the swap, I believe the Porsche published HP spec is 247 (someone correct me if I am wrong--I don't know the later cars well). You use Sec III K. to calculate the points, not Sec J. The formula is HP difference (247-180=67) x .22 = 14.74, rounded up to 15. This is what Paul is talking about. You have 5 points left to play with in IP. Add 6 more, and you are in II. If you have 2 for aero (rear wing), 2 for torsion bars, and two for sway bars, then you are already there, even running a SS tire of 140+ treadwear.

If you made any modifications at all to the 964 engine (other than headers, which are free), then you would use the displacement formula along with all the other relevant mods in Section III Parts E through J to calculate the point total for the engine. These would include induction (4), cams (5) and heads (5), ad well as the 8 points for displacement increase, for a total of 22 points for the engine alone. It is easy to see from this how a stock engine swap is preferable.

TT

Thanks, Tom.

Yep ... I'll just stay in X-class or AR-2 'til I chat with the respective committees. Thanks for your notes.

[Dan Chambers]

Dan,

Now that you're in II, you might as well get really wide 710's, a big wing and all the other go fast goodies. Vrooom!!

Nah. The tires wear too fast for the street, the wing just invites laundry drying, and the noise just frustrates my neighbors.

"It's just a street car."

[pdy]

Dan: Your 3.6 alone is worth 15 points (if it's a bone-stock 964 engine). That leaves you only 5 points remaining for any
other enhancements on the Pearl to stay in IP (wing = 2, suspension = 2+, tires = 2+) - good luck!

Hmmm. I guess I read this one a little differently.

I changed my displacement by 0.6L; from 3.0L to 3.6L. According to "J" in Section III of "Assessment of Modification Points" it indicated the % X 36 criteria. It does not indicate how that displacement is changed. It only states:

"Engine displacement increase:

Percentage of engine displacement increase multiplied by 36 = total points.

For sums ending in more than a whole number, round to the next highest whole number."

S0 .6 divided by 3.0 times 36 = 7.2 ... round up to 8 points.

Yes, but compared to your stock 3.0L engine, you have also changed the cylinder heads (+5), induction system (+4),
and camshafts (+5). This plus the 8 for displacement adds up to the 22 Tom mentions. If you put stock 911SC 3.0L
heads, cams, and CIS back on that 3.6L engine, then okay - it's only 8 points (good luck with that conversion!).

See, you can take either points path with the transplant (III.K or total of III.E, III.F, III.G, and III.J) but obviously the
simple-swap (III.K) is only 15 points compared to 22.

One simply cannot use displacement for an engine swap - the other effective engine changes need to be added too.

[Dan Chambers]

Dan: Your 3.6 alone is worth 15 points (if it's a bone-stock 964 engine). That leaves you only 5 points remaining for any
other enhancements on the Pearl to stay in IP (wing = 2, suspension = 2+, tires = 2+) - good luck!

Hmmm. I guess I read this one a little differently.

I changed my displacement by 0.6L; from 3.0L to 3.6L. According to "J" in Section III of "Assessment of Modification Points" it indicated the % X 36 criteria. It does not indicate how that displacement is changed. It only states:

"Engine displacement increase:

Percentage of engine displacement increase multiplied by 36 = total points.

For sums ending in more than a whole number, round to the next highest whole number."

S0 .6 divided by 3.0 times 36 = 7.2 ... round up to 8 points.

Yes, but compared to your stock 3.0L engine, you have also changed the cylinder heads (+5), induction system (+4),
and camshafts (+5). This plus the 8 for displacement adds up to the 22 Tom mentions. If you put stock 911SC 3.0L
heads, cams, and CIS back on that 3.6L engine, then okay - it's only 8 points (good luck with that conversion!).

See, you can take either points path with the transplant (III.K or total of III.E, III.F, III.G, and III.J) but obviously the
simple-swap (III.K) is only 15 points compared to 22.

One simply cannot use displacement for an engine swap - the other effective engine changes need to be added too.

Well gowlll-lee, Sgt. Carter! That sure ain't clearly outlined in them thar rules now is it? Y'all make it so hard on yerselves with how yu go 'bout yer rules makin'. Mmm. Mmm. Mmm.

Aw guess Aw'll have tu chase down ol' "Butch" in II-Class and hope I kin stik in the korn-ers on them thar streat tars. Mah bugit's 'bout blown out on a kownta thu enjin and instawll kosts. Gud thing I kin stil do thu point-bi's.

It'll still be fun, eh?

Down the road ...

DC

[efhughes3]

Well, no matter the outcome on all of this, I still plan on dropping my engine on 2/20 and making good use of a bunch of expensive parts over the next couple of months.

Anyone is welcome to come by, we'll have a few bodies in attendance.

[Dan Chambers]

Ed:

With any luck I'll stop by as part of the "break-in" process. Ramona, and some fun twisties are just around the corner ...

BTW: I thought you had a SC. Sorry, dude! A Carrera with your mods will be ... quick!

[efhughes3]

Ed:

With any luck I'll stop by as part of the "break-in" process. Ramona, and some fun twisties are just around the corner ...

BTW: I thought you had a SC. Sorry, dude! A Carrera with your mods will be ... quick!

Sounds like a plan. I'm a 1/2 mile from the bottom of Lake Wohlford Rd. Ruby knows her way up South Grade Rd pretty well now.

[Don Middleton]

Dan, you and Jae have to be doing more than a bone-stock 964 3.6L.

Go for the 300HP mark (26 points), get yourself some nice big 710s (8 more points) and rest easy with 40 points in IM class with room to grow.