2005 auto-x/TT rules

[ttweed]

Tom,
Why not run the 67S in GS with the same set-up as last year.
You would have a 5-point car that should be very competitive.

I may do that, just to wear out the tires before going to R-compounds. It's only a 3-point car, though, as the torsion bars are stock, only the sway bars are uprated, plus the 1 point for tires. The only place I will eat it is on the BRI, having to run with a higher index with the same setup.

TT

[Carl Scragg]

Tom, aren't you getting tired of dominating the BRI anyway? And isn't your wife getting sick of looking at that brass dophin? Perhaps if you just ran the same setup in GS, we won't have to go adjusting the index with the new "Tweed factor".

[martinreinhardt]

Good news, my car will remain in KP for 2005 with 19 points and by adding a 60-70 pound rollbar it may even go back to 15 points

Jad, join us in KP.

[Dan Chambers]

And Dan, might the new diff cost you an additional 2 points? With the new points for your Azenis, are you getting bumped all the way up to GP?

Yes, Carl, the diff is 2 points to me (DING!) . The good news is, according to the 2005 rules, with after-market springs (2 - points), New diff (2 points), and 225 Azenis tires (1 point) I've got TONS of room left in GS class ...... ... 1 point

As Jad always says, it comes down to driver skills. The car is done, now I need improvement .

[Dan Chambers]

Tom,
Why not run the 67S in GS with the same set-up as last year.
You would have a 5-point car that should be very competitive.

I may do that, just to wear out the tires before going to R-compounds. It's only a 3-point car, though, as the torsion bars are stock, only the sway bars are uprated, plus the 1 point for tires.

TT

R compound tires in GS!?!?!? I'm toast !

[bryanearll]

OK, help me out once again. I want to be sure I understand clearly.
Kumho MX (zero points)
265/35R18 93Y rated Dot 220/AA/A 26#
no mention of compound could be found on the Kumho website.

Bridgestone Potenza S-02 (zero points)
265/35ZR18 Z rated Dot 140 AA 29#

Bridgestone Potenza RE-050 (zero? or not allowed in NSS)
265/35R18 93Y rated DOT 140 AA 28#

Maybe a side discussion on tires in general would be worthwhile for the unitiated. BTW what does the 93 mean?
Bryan

[Doug]

Good work on getting the rules posted, Steve.

I have a couple of questions, though.

It seems the first paragraph of III--Points for modifications contradicts the diff rule, III-N. That first paragraph states that "commonly available optional equipment" incurs no points assessment, where the diff rule seems to dictate a 2-point hit. Now, I'm pretty sure I need to take that 2 points, but the wording could be clearer. An LSD was an option on a 944 S2, though probably not ordered in huge numbers, so is that not "commonly available"? You see the gray area.

On rule III-B, are rebound-adjustable Koni Yellows considered "remotely adjustable shocks," and if so, does everyone running them have to take another 2 points?

Last, on rule III-V, if my stock 944 front suspension allows for 3 degrees negative camber, would I take a points assessment for camber plates, if the adjustment through those plates didn't exceed 3 degrees?

Thanks, and happy New Year to all.

[Steve Grosekemper]

Bryan
Go to tire rack and select the tire of your choice and on the top of the screen you will see a spec tab. click it and you will see a UTQG number. That is the tread wear. Spend some time surfing (sorry Tom) this site and every possible tire question will be answered.
This is a very informative site.

For my money the Kumho MX is the tire for S/S. It is cheap, durable, sticky and has a 220 UTQG rating.

[Steve Grosekemper]

Doug,
I will try to answer your questions best I can-

Wouldn't a commonly available option have to be on over 50% of the cars to be common? The rule used to read 10% and it was removed. But let's be honest...it is not common at all. I don't think I have ever seen an S-2 w/ a stock LSD. I think it is less grey when you arn't hoping to take it for free

Yes you take 2 points.

On III-B Thanks for catching this!
I need to change one word in that rule. I must have posted the previous version of the rules. I will have to bust out my laptop and re-edit that.
It will say externally adjustable.
Yes, that includes all shockes that are externally adjustable
Koni, PSS-9, JRZ and the lot.
So all those 944 Boge to Koni conversions must take 2 points.

For III-V Yes if you've got them you take points for them.
The argument is the same as telling the judge, " Yes I used a gun in the robbery, but there were no bullets in it!" Are you going to be the camber police?

[David J Marguglio]

Steve: I know that I have asked this before, but I just want to clarify. Regarding weight, III R states that "car curb weight as stated in the manual." Which manual? The 964 manual or the RSA supplement? I assume that RSA's are not automatically taking points. Yet, on the other hand, though the turbo-look, Speedster and American Roadster are mentioned, the RSA is conspicuous by its absence from the K cars. Hmmmm, sounds like a conspiracy to me. Where is my advocate? Keith!?!

[Doug]

Thanks, Steve. That helps to clarify things.

On the "Diff rule descrepancy" thing, there still is a gray area...not for me, perhaps, but what about cars where say, roughly 40% of the build had the LSD? You might be able to bluff and fudge your way to convincing a suggestible tech inspector that half the cars had it. The wording is a little too open to interpretation, that's all.

I think there needs to be a hard and fast rule on this, where any car with an LSD, optional or not, needs to take the points. If a bone-stock car has an LSD, the 2 points wouldn't bump them out of an SS class either. Could make your life easier in the tech line too.

With the new rules, it looks as if a lot of us will be taking 2 to 6 extra points, which is fine, but if people honestly classify their cars, it'll be a little lonely in the Stock class ranks.

On the camber plate rule, why not re-word to say "Adjustable camber plates--2 points" and eliminate any doubt?

Thanks for listening! JP, here I come!

[Steve Grosekemper]

David,
You are 100% correct, there is a consiracy against RSA's but not by me...(I've said too much already)

If you actually read the rule!!!! It specifically stated the owners manual. Base 964 not and of the other models.

Most cars are well over the stated curb weight, so if you are close have your car weighed.

I wrote a proposal to eliminate all 964 variants from "K" and leave only 964, making you take points for all other versions. But it was voted down. Better luck next year.

I just thought it wrong that a stock '89 C-4 cab should run against a 94 Turbo look with wider wheels, bigger brakes, spoiler, track....

(Opps there I go again, I've said too much)

[martinreinhardt]

David,

You didn't read the fine print: All RS Americas especially you and Burl MUST run with 2 x 35 pounds sandbags in the car

[Steve Grosekemper]

Doug,
If you want to argue build numbers, find the numbers first. I don't think any model that has a LSD as an option has anywhere near 40% population.

Wording is tricky, if you have a suggestion the correct place to submit it is the Z-8 rules page. Proposal suggestions were open 1-1-05 @ 12:10 am.

[Jad]

David,

You didn't read the fine print: All RS Americas especially you and Burl MUST run with 2 x 35 pounds sandbags in the car

You both missed the fine print: All RS Americas and other non-bone stock 964's must run with 2 x 135 pound sandbags in the car (in some instances, the driver satisfies the requirement for one of the bags )

Doug/Steve, as far as the "commonly available" options go, I think that should be reworded. An evil lawyer type (not that I have ever delt with any ) would argue available does not correspond to ordered or built and LSD was 'available' on most 944's, even if not ordered, thus no points. I would suggest, optional LSD are 2 points. This helps the C4 and turbo guys as its not optional (oh and 944 TS guys!), as intended, but isn't quite as confusing. Personally, I think either all factory options should be allowed or not, but that is just me.