Autocross Results June 5th, 2010

[rshon]

Letting go of the steering wheel is also hard to explain to students... especially when WE don't want them to do that

[ttweed]

Tom, I think you are taking creative license in describing the experience. I know you can't help it being a writer; but really???

Yes, hyperbole may be my strong suit, but I wish we had some in-car video to look at. Unless the camera could pan out the side windows, I don't think we would be seeing where the course was going for most of those laps from a fixed mount!

I was in total "Control" of the situation.

I would never dispute that fact, but have to admit I could not have saved half those slides. Old age dulls the reflexes...
I think all you need is some of those Kumho Ecsta SPT tires that throw off colored smoke and you could join up with the FormulaD guys and make some money with those skillz!

I put you in the car because I didn't want to waste all that giggling on myself...Hope you enjoyed yourself.

Oh I did! I took my blood pressure medication that morning, so there was little risk of a heart attack, and I definitely didn't need any more coffee after that first session.


TT

[Steve Grosekemper]

Tom, I think you are taking creative license in describing the experience. I know you can't help it being a writer; but really???

Yes, hyperbole may be my strong suit, but I wish we had some in-car video to look at. Unless the camera could pan out the side windows, I don't think we would be seeing where the course was going for most of those laps from a fixed mount!

I was in total "Control" of the situation.

I would never dispute that fact, but have to admit I could not have saved half those slides. Old age dulls the reflexes...
I think all you need is some of those Kumho Ecsta SPT tires that throw off colored smoke and you could join up with the FormulaD guys and make some money with those skillz!

I put you in the car because I didn't want to waste all that giggling on myself...Hope you enjoyed yourself.

Oh I did! I took my blood pressure medication that morning, so there was little risk of a heart attack, and I definitely didn't need any more coffee after that first session.


TT

OK- I don't think I can argue with any of that... But I am glad you enjoyed the ride.

[Dan Chambers]

Some of us were discussing that this was NOT a good teaching track - at least not for beginning students. ....

Unfortunately true. With my "never-autocrossed-before" student, the effect of soooo many 180-degree turns (I counted 7) and many of those being less than 50' radius, the overwhelming issue for my student was being lost, being a little queezy - even when he was driving - and suffering a mild case of post-lap directional tumult from constant 180-turn syndrome. In the end, we focused exclusively on car control and driving technique and threw "the line" completely out the window since trying to stress apexes on such a busy track was not aiding smooth transitions and good car control.

Had any of the AX design team driven the course with a little speed prior to the event, they might have realized how complex ... and potentially "challenging" ... the course would have been. They may possibly have reconsidered portions of the design element.

When Carl, Gary, and I were AX Chairs we religiously drove the proposed courses prior to every event. Often we'd drive the designed course at 50% speed (or even faster) in Carl's PT Cruiser to determine the characteristics of the course and the appropriate level of speed vs. difficulty vs just plan fun and good track rhythm. Sadly, my encouragement to the AX Chairs who followed us to pre-drive the courses to determine design characteristics has fallen mostly on deaf ears. Sometimes that leads to designs that look awesome on paper, and turn from a beautiful swan on paper to an ugly duckling when driven. But ... that's just my personal opinion and bears no criticism what so ever to the great job the AX Chairs have been doing all year.

I have just one question: what's so wrong about straight-away's? I haven't seen one in a while.

Just my ramblings....

[Kim Crosser]

While it may not have been a good track for teaching beginners, it was a VERY fun track to drive, and a good track for teaching some advanced techniques. In order to go fast, you needed to really use the "turn early, gas, and let momentum slide your car past the apex cone while accelerating" technique throughout most of the first third of the course.
Our tracks don't have to be excellent teaching tracks all the time - sometimes, just a fun track for the more experienced drivers can work too.

[Steve Grosekemper]

While it may not have been a good track for teaching beginners, it was a VERY fun track to drive, and a good track for teaching some advanced techniques. In order to go fast, you needed to really use the "turn early, gas, and let momentum slide your car past the apex cone while accelerating" technique throughout most of the first third of the course.
Our tracks don't have to be excellent teaching tracks all the time - sometimes, just a fun track for the more experienced drivers can work too.

I disagree...
This track promoted excessive sliding of the car and abuse of the tires.
When I worked corners just down from the Bud sign it was obvious just how bad the track was due to every car transitioning from left to right in a slide...
Not drifting, but sliding. The excessive use of 180 +/- degree off camber turns was not enjoyable or good for cars.
One of these elements is fine, maybe two if track layout dictates; but this was excessive.
If this track was laid out again, I would just stay home.
That being said, the previous track was awesome with really great rhythm and variation of elements.
I would do that track again anytime.
I know the AX team has a tough time with keeping variation and trying to find the last bits of good asphalt, but I wouldn't cry if this design was not reused.

Just my 2 cents.

[Dan Chambers]

If this track was laid out again, I would just stay home.

+1.

3' to 5', glassy w/ off-shore winds to 4 knots, water temp 63-degrees vs. the last track? No brainer!

[gulf911]

If this track was laid out again, I would just stay home.

+1 and just an extra wish that maybe we could layout tracks that were more SDR like and not SCCA like?

[Mmagus]

Some of us were discussing that this was NOT a good teaching track - at least not for beginning students. ....

Had any of the AX design team driven the course with a little speed prior to the event, they might have realized how complex ... and potentially "challenging" ... the course would have been. They may possibly have reconsidered portions of the design element.

Sadly, my encouragement to the AX Chairs who followed us to pre-drive the courses to determine design characteristics has fallen mostly on deaf ears. Sometimes that leads to designs that look awesome on paper, and turn from a beautiful swan on paper to an ugly duckling when driven. But ... that's just my personal opinion and bears no criticism what so ever to the great job the AX Chairs have been doing all year.

I have just one question: what's so wrong about straight-away's? I haven't seen one in a while.

Just my ramblings....

I was not at the last AX, however I do need to chime in regarding part of this. Your words of advice have been listend to. Kari and I have helped set up the severl AX's previous to this one and I can GUARENTEE that the track was test driven prior to the event by an AX chair and and ...ummm....un-named assisant.. in two seperate vevehicles at various speeds. Additionally, Jerry posted that only 1/3 of the track was able to be set because another group had us of the facility, so driving it before the crack of dawn Sat. morn would not have been possible.

[Sawfish]

I had a great time Thanks everyone for all the hard work!
Chris

[JERRY B]

The people that desinged & setup the track really liked it, Weird
The people that pre drove liked it, Strange
HINT HINT

[Bill Behun]

WOW - personally, I enjoyed the track.
I even liked the 180 degree turns as it reinforced (to me) the idea of slow in-fast out.
Some being off-camber made it a real challenge and you would learn quickly what happens when you go in too fast.

Regarding pre-driving the couse like Dan, Gary and Carl always did - there was a Street Legal event Friday night and the full course could not even be set up. Thus, no chance for Jerry & Don to drive it.

[Don Middleton]

WOW - personally, I enjoyed the track...

Hey Bill, second in the BRI, I hope you enjoyed it. There isn't much room for enjoying more, is there? Well, maybe we should ask Erik how he liked it.

[hmeeder]

Lastly, I'm a little curious about what caused some of the DNRs? Herb and Sean's 914 didn't make timed runs, nor did Sean Dynes, and Dan Andrews dropped out after one run? What happened, guys?

TT

Well, our failure was more "tragic" than "catastrophic" thankfully. Nasty, lumpy, "could that be rod failure?" kind of knocking pulled us off the track on the 5th lap of the day. It was a heart wrenching sound and we didn't press it an inch further.

Towed the 10JREEN out of there (at 10am! too soon!) and by 2:00 we had the trans and motor out and discovered that one of the fan mount bolts decided to have its own autocross around the fan shroud (blue loctite wasn't enough for the abuse we put that thing through.) produced a solid knock that you could feel through the case.

By 8pm the motor had been stripped down, some "while we are in there" maintenance and loving. The tins and top of the motor is about to go back on and the trans (with a fresh cut on the PP and flywheel and a fresh clutch) and the car goes back together tonight.

We have a race in Alameda on Saturday, so we are grateful that we are able to get the beast back together as quickly as we can.

I'm pretty bummed that I didn't get to turn even 1 lap on the track. It looked plenty busy and I was really looking forward to taking advantage of our weight (and a little bit of treachery.)

As for straightaways, they are over-rated. Anyone can drive fast in a straight line. It's what we do at the end of that straight that I find interesting. We are trying to optimize the car for autocross and 90 mph straights aren't in that formula.

Anyone autocrossed in other parts of the country? Sometimes you are lucky to get a 30 second lap and never get to take the car out of 2nd gear. We are spoiled by what we get here in SDR, yet it is human nature to always want more.

If a straight is what you want, there's a DE at the end of the month. My $.02

[ttweed]

Well, our failure was more "tragic" than "catastrophic" thankfully.

Glad it wasn't any worse, Herb. Too bad you didn't get any timed runs, the 10JREEN would have done well on that track.

TT