"Taste of the Track" at AX events?

[Bill Behun]

Last year we charged $2 a lap as we had a lot of State students that wanted a taste and it was a fundraiser for the SDSU Car Club.

We just had the folks sign the waiver at the SDSU card table, get the wrist band, and give $$ to someone standing at the start collecting. We could do something like this at the start/trailer location. Even though folks are supposed to sign the waiver at the entry gate to the lot, I'd still have them sign again at the trailer/start to just be sure - and maybe get a different color band than they get at the gate.

It went real easy - maybe because we had the State students collecting and doing some of the other work - oh yeah, and it rained hard in the morning so not that many riders showed up for the event.

I too think this would be a good idea to do more than once a year and promote it well.

[Jackie C]

As a driver, I like the idea of being able to take my friends around for a couple laps, but logistically how does that work? If I instruct, my student gets bumped for my friend? As an instructor I don't think that's fair. What's keeping a non instructor from taking out their friend (as in the Ferrari fatalities in Fontana)? Will someone at pregrid actually be checking wristbands like at the big tracks? Will there be a special wristband for this type of entry? As it stands, SEVERAL instructors who already wish not to instruct are pressed into service regardless of their requests as there just aren't enough willing instructors to instruct the existing students we already have. Also we still have students who want instructors after their 4 events and can't be provided this opportunity. As preregistration, it would be a nightmare to try to preregister these people and do the pairings 2 days before the event. It already takes 3 of us 3 hours just for PRE registration and that does not include the walk ups at the trailer or charging out the event. If you agree to this, these people WON'T be able to pre register, they will have to pay at the trailer. This will severely impact the instructor pool for pairings so good luck with that. Note: Tom Tweed has stated he won't be able to instruct because of this. (You shouldn't have asked me to post Jerry )

[Don Middleton]

As a driver, I like the idea of being able to take my friends around for a couple laps, but logistically how does that work? If I instruct, my student gets bumped for my friend? As an instructor I don't think that's fair. What's keeping a non instructor from taking out their friend (as in the Ferrari fatalities in Fontana)? Will someone at pregrid actually be checking wristbands like at the big tracks? Will there be a special wristband for this type of entry? As it stands, SEVERAL instructors who already wish not to instruct are pressed into service regardless of their requests as there just aren't enough willing instructors to instruct the existing students we already have. Also we still have students who want instructors after their 4 events and can't be provided this opportunity. As preregistration, it would be a nightmare to try to preregister these people and do the pairings 2 days before the event. It already takes 3 of us 3 hours just for PRE registration and that does not include the walk ups at the trailer or charging out the event. If you agree to this, these people WON'T be able to pre register, they will have to pay at the trailer. This will severely impact the instructor pool for pairings so good luck with that.

Whoa, Jackie, have a pumpkin square and post again. Things always look more doable after pumpkin squares - like patching the parking lot at the Q, right?

The instructor's obligation at any driving event is a real issue. But, the TotT can work with a little planning that does not involve pre-reg (they do have far too much now). I'll work with Bill and Jerry to work out the details. I think the Taste is too important to blow off.

[tb911]

It seems like this is a good time to remind people of the purpose of the Taste of the Track Program. It is intended to assist those members or potential members in making a decision that are "on the fence" about participating in their own cars. It is intended to be instructional -- both an intro to performance driving as well as an intro to the procedures and responsibilities of being a participant. That is why it is suggested that they participate in all aspects of the day that novice drivers attend, including any driver’s meetings, chalk talks, classroom sessions and corner working, etc. as appropriate for the type of event. And of course, our insurance mandates that everybody pay a fee and sign the waivers, as everybody must be an entrant in the event.

While enforcement may be next to impossible, it is supposed to be instructional, not entertainment, not your private roller coaster.

I'm not really sure what to do with the charity rides. I've heard of other regions doing them, so we aren't alone or the first there. But it is probably stretching the the program a bit in a direction that wasn't intended.

Not accusing anybody of anything, like I said, just a reminder that we need to be smart about this and if the person in question will probalby never buy a Porsche or participate in their Porsche, the answer should be "no, we aren't allowed to give or even sell joy rides." Of course there may be extenuating circumstances or reasons to judge on a case-by-case basis. I guess what I'm saying is that as with everything we do, use good judgement.

[ttweed]

Not accusing anybody of anything, like I said, just a reminder that we need to be smart about this and if the person in question will probalby never buy a Porsche or participate in their Porsche, the answer should be "no, we aren't allowed to give or even sell joy rides."

If we are not currently limiting entrants to Porsches only, or even to members only, are these concerns as relevant as when we were? We are trying to encourage participation to get the numbers up to what they once were, i thought? We have been inviting BMW folks to run with us, allowing non-members in non-Porsches to enter our events consistently. If we can encourage someone to come out and run their Honda, should we say no? I had another friend who came out to the last DE at the Q and ran his S2000 with us very successfully, I thought (at least I don't remember anyone complaining bitterly about him and did hear some positive comments). I think we need entrants anywhere we can find them, as long as they are qualified and well-behaved. Whether or not they are in the market for a Porsche doesn't seem to be that germane in our current situation. Maybe if we had 120 people coming out to every autox again we could afford to be more picky...

TT

[325racer]

Please allow me to give a perspective from the BMW side, where we are still hosting AutoX events that are sold out at 90-100 entrants (depending on time of year). Yes we structure things a bit different and bring in about 10-20 instructors per event, again, season/weather, etc dependent. Yes these instructors are worked fairly hard in the morning, then allowed some free Play Time during the second set of practice runs for everyone else.

During those runs that the instructors are doing we generally have a line of entrants, entrants friends, family, or just people that came by looking to get rides.

We (the Club and Instructors) gladly give these people rides for free.

This encourages and trains the entrants how to go faster, it excites new people to attend future events. Then again, helps to retain those new people if they are getting frustrated with their own times, by feeling what they are striving to do.

Bottom line allowing instructors to take anyone for a ride is a very good PR tool for the events.

But if you make it to much of a hassle for someone to get a ride, guess what! They will wonder if they have to jump through hoops just for a ride, what will they think it's like to enter the event?

Just my few cents for thought.

[Gary Burch]

Bottom line allowing instructors to take anyone for a ride is a very good PR tool for the events.

But if you make it to much of a hassle for someone to get a ride, guess what! They will wonder if they have to jump through hoops just for a ride, what will they think it's like to enter the event?

Now that makes sense

[tb911]

Bottom line allowing instructors to take anyone for a ride is a very good PR tool for the events.

But if you make it to much of a hassle for someone to get a ride, guess what! They will wonder if they have to jump through hoops just for a ride, what will they think it's like to enter the event?

Sure sounds like a good time, but unfortunately, our national organization makes the rules and it can't be as simple as "just hop in" in our club. Anybody on the track must be an entrant, which means a reasonable fee and the waiver must be signed at a minimum. The attitude stems from national considering our insurance policy to be the lifeblood of the club, in that if we were to become un-insurable, well, no more driving events of any kind and what would that do to us? So, much of our policy comes from the risk management perspective. To rephrase what I said earlier, it was just a reminder to all that Taste of the Track is about introducing or exposing people to the sport but it isn't meant to be thrill rides. Again, not saying that was anybody's intention or desire or that anything wrong has been done, just throwing it into the conversation. When someone says "I'd like to take my friends for some laps" does it mean the same thing as "My friends have been wondering if autocrossing is for them"? Maybe yes, but maybe no.

Oh, and I must admit I have a Porsche centric mindset, but agree with Mr Tweed that it could be any make car owner that is considering driving with us.

[gulf911]

First, the concern about instructors is only with the instructors cars. The instructors will still be instructing the student in their car, this is where they will get the most help anyway. Second, I completely agree that if its ridiculously difficult to just go for a couple laps it isn't going to be enjoyable. If the insurance is the issue, how does the BMW club do it?
I think tott is a good idea and $10 would be reasonable for a session. Having them sign a waiver would be a must. Having them corner work , probably not. They can certainly see how it works without standing out there.

[jenniferreinhardt]

Not to be a party pooper, but I know A LOT of people in this club that are uber competitive. Every run is a test, as well as an extreme effort to improve their times - and ultimately win. Many also pay lots of $ to tune their cars. So, hopefully there wouldn't be a lot of pressure put on these folks to have people getting in and out of their cars causing distractions and performance decline.

But, those who are willing to do so - more power to you!

[gulf911]

Jennifer, I am not for 'assigning' taste of the track participants to instructors either. I guess I was thinking that the instructors would bring them in. I am on the fence at the moment if these are assigned.

[Jad]

Not to be a party pooper, but I know A LOT of people in this club that are uber competitive. Every run is a test, as well as an extreme effort to improve their times - and ultimately win. Many also pay lots of $ to tune their cars. So, hopefully there wouldn't be a lot of pressure put on these folks to have people getting in and out of their cars causing distractions and performance decline.

But, those who are willing to do so - more power to you!

Well your hubby is uber competitive, some others of us really enjoy giving rides (maybe not during timed runs, but any other time )

This club is about having fun and I think it would make things much more fun if we could find a way to give rides if we want to. Lets face it, it happens one way or the other, so let find a fair and legal way of doing it.

Right now, ANYONE, can get joy rides by registering for the event, paying $50, and never driving, just riding with various instructors all day long. Too expensive for most people, but perfectly allowed. Lets find a way to make that happen for $10 or so.

[Don Middleton]

Sure sounds like a good time, but unfortunately, our national organization makes the rules and it can't be as simple as "just hop in" in our club. Anybody on the track must be an entrant, which means a reasonable fee and the waiver must be signed at a minimum. The attitude stems from national considering our insurance policy to be the lifeblood of the club, in that if we were to become un-insurable, well, no more driving events of any kind and what would that do to us? So, much of our policy comes from the risk management perspective. To rephrase what I said earlier, it was just a reminder to all that Taste of the Track is about introducing or exposing people to the sport but it isn't meant to be thrill rides. Again, not saying that was anybody's intention or desire or that anything wrong has been done, just throwing it into the conversation. When someone says "I'd like to take my friends for some laps" does it mean the same thing as "My friends have been wondering if autocrossing is for them"? Maybe yes, but maybe no.

Tom, if National's rules are an issue, then how did we do this last year, as Bill described? As AX Chairs last year, Bill and I had pre-approval from the Board to make it happen. Expanding the Taste concept is too important to let this drop over National's rules. Let's discuss tonight at the Board meeting.

[martinreinhardt]

Well your hubby is uber competitive, some others of us really enjoy giving rides (maybe not during timed runs, but any other time )

Look who is talking.

I miss the KI days, those days were competitive and fun.

Honestly, I don't see the fun or purpose in racing if it's not to win? Now if I could only find a quick release system to remove for the passenger seat before each event .

[tb911]

then how did we do this last year

Like I said, charity events like this happen around the country, we aren't the first or the only. I'm not really sure what national would say if you were to ask about it.

Anyway, I'm not trying to tell anybody what they can or can't do, only to, as I said, only to to remind about the intended purpose of the program.