Jan. Streets of Willow Springs reg available

[gulf911]

The PCA TT series regulars enjoy the PCA discount, but the all or nothing design of the discount excludes anyone that can't make every TT event.
Speaking for Dan only, kill the season long discount if it means PCA won't have to raise prices for timed laps, right Dan?

Also interested in how you/Jack and the PCA Board feels about double point weekends with different track configurations Sat and Sun?
Would more TT racers participate if they could get double points?
Would more DE fans stay both days if they could run 2 different tracks?
Running the track both directions means twice the chance to set a track or a BRI record?
Just concepts to increase value/interest w/o increasing entry fees.

If Sunday is the same direction with afternoon run sessions canceled for timed laps I'd consider Saturday only.

+1 mike

So far the only description of next year's DE/TT fee structure is embedded in the January TT Motorsports Registration page, it requires some deciphering, and you have to go to the third screen to see the actual costs.

Also, there is no explanation/rationale for the $25 timed runs fee.

It would be helpful if someone could post details of the season pass program, how the mixed DE/TT system will work, and the rationale for the new fee structure.

That was my point as well rshon. Whats the rational? if the break even for the track is 19 cars why wouldn't the fee be less, not more?
I am not sure about anyone else but I would prefer to pay based on the venue. If its less at streets we pay less, buy hey thats me..
just an fyi, at $275 , and as ridiculous as you may think it is, I and others would have attended a lot more TT's, at $345? not so much...

How about a heads up to whats being proposed in advance so the attendee's can weigh in in advance?

I do appreciate all the work that goes into managing these events, thank you!

[Gary Burch]

Dan, I agree. I have always found TT pricing questionable. Like you say, if it was cheaper more people would attend. I still don't understand the $30 for a transponder, how long have those things been paid for?

[pecivil]

hey! I signed up both days TT

it will be fun!!

[Steve Grosekemper]

I just registered for streets, Call me Streets #7.

We will be out to the 12-4 AX to shake down the 2011 version of the II/CC? car.

[SDGT3]

Wouldn't this new system stretch the instructor corp too thin? You would still have TT participants that need instruction and then a group of totally green students (especially now that there is no prior experience necessary, not even AX) that are in their own run group?

I'm curious as to the rational for charging an additional $25 charge to run 2 timed laps? Is there a cost to the club in the form of additional insurance or is there something else?

[Jad]

Not to hijack this hijacked thread, but I was wondering how instructors feel about instructing a first time student on a big track with no safety equipment during a DE?

[Cajundaddy]

Not to hijack this hijacked thread, but I was wondering how instructors feel about instructing a first time student on a big track with no safety equipment during a DE?

This is an interesting question and one that is unique to PCA-SDR. Essentially every other PCA region in the country has been instructing first time students on a big track with stock seats and belts for a very long time. Same goes with POC, Speedventures, Red Line, NASA and SCCA. First time PCA DE student safety record is excellent.

Personally I would save the Fontana Roval and WSIR for more experienced drivers but I have been instructing first timers for two years at Streets, Fontana infield, Buttonwillow, and recently Pomona Fairplex with no issues. My students to date have all been very cautious and followed instructions well. The scariest ride I ever had as an instructor was at a Qualcom DE with one of our very experienced AX chairs In 5 years of performance driving the only drivers I know that seriously wadded up their cars had a TT license or equivalent experience. Of those five drivers, three were from PCA-SDR.

I think PCA-SDR has one of the best driver development programs in the country and THE best instructor corps bar none. As always, the key to a fun, safe, event is preparation, careful student driver interview, and working up to speed slowly. We all have to depend on each other for on-track safety out there. If a student is overdriving their car, not listening, or in any way out of control it's time to reel them in or send them home. Lets get student drivers under control before we have to test the safety gear.

[Mike]

I was wondering how instructors feel about instructing a first time student on a big track with no safety equipment during a DE?

no thank you, not even for free timed laps.

[Mmagus]

Not to hijack this hijacked thread, but I was wondering how instructors feel about instructing a first time student on a big track with no safety equipment during a DE?

Jad,

Great question, and not to re-hijack this hijacking of this hijacked thread....But your question really deserves its own thread, with a clear title for folks. Since each instructor should ONLY participate as they desire and are comfortable. The revamped guidlines allowing completly new drivers at a DE don't amount to a hill of beans if instructors are unwilling to head out with them.

[Don Middleton]

Back to the original subject - I'd like to encourage everyone who has interest to sign up now for the event. This new approach to DE/TT gives us all many options, but it also makes event organization a bit of a nightmare for Robert. He cannot know how the run groups will sort out for Saturday and Sunday until he get's most everyone registered.

By my count, with options for 1-day (Saturday or Sunday) and 2-day DE, and 1-day TT (Saturday or Sunday) w/wo Timed Run session, as well 2-day TT w/wo Timed Run session, there are 8 realistic options for running the event. Robert can't know how many DE or TT groups will be running each day until he sees what the preferences might be.

So, sign up now. Robert has mentioned that we can alter our registration after we see how the DE/TT run group configuration is settled!

For my part, the 2-day TT without Timed Run session looks like my initial shot. The new $25 fee for an official time puts a $100+ price tag on that year end trophy.

[gulf911]

Sorry, but none of the pricing questions have been answered, whats the justification for the fee? Why should the transponder be mandatory when they have the info already? Like I said before you change the pricing to be more in line with 'actual' costs by venue and you will get more attendees, rather than using DE entrants for that purpose. Your silence is deafening...

[Don Middleton]

Sorry, but none of the pricing questions have been answered...

Dan, they took their best shot on pricing. It is what it is. It's our turn to vote with our registration. For now, I'm skipping the Timed Run session fee. The Timed Runs add a nice dimension to the event, but I like the idea of getting on the road at 1PM, too. So, I may be back to paying for Timed Runs at another event, or I may skip the two day participation completely and do 1-day participations. Not sure which way I'll go. But, you're right in that the pricing will shape the registration for each event.

So, register and let them see where you stand.

[SDGT3]

I think the Time Trial program with PCASDR has been run incredibly well in the past and I've personally enjoyed each and every time I've gone out there. Jack and Robert have done a fantastic job and would like to thank them for their time and effort as volunteers in this area of the club.

However, I think a menu of options and cost per item would be helpful at this point. I would really hate to pay more and get less track time than in the past. Hopefully this new system does not mean just that, but in the meantime there will be plenty of questions. For example,

1. I'd like to sign up for the Streets event to test and tune a race car and having a transponder with lap times after each session is incredibly important to determine what is working and what is not for changes made to the car between the sessions. Last year we were not able to see our times after each session, this year we will ( ). Is the additional $25 charge to run TT just for the timed runs at the end of Sunday OR is it to have your times displayed for Sat and/or Sun?

2. If we all sign up now with no penalty to cancel later in order to establish run groups, what happens when people begin to cancel in numbers because they do not like the run groups in which they have been placed? Are the run groups then redone to reflect the actual numbers that intend to run effectively changing the essence of the run groups or number of groups? If so, when will the new run groups be published?

3. When is the last day to cancel without penalty?

4. If one does not want to run with a transponder, is he or she automatically placed in a DE group rather than a TT group? In other words, is there any chance of having experienced drivers in the same run group with novice drivers because of their choice to run a transponder or not?

These are the kinds of questions I have at this point.

[SDGT3]

Sorry, but none of the pricing questions have been answered...

Dan, they took their best shot on pricing.

What does this mean exactly?

[Don Middleton]

Sorry, but none of the pricing questions have been answered...

Dan, they took their best shot on pricing.

What does this mean exactly?

Peter, I was just trying to say that Robert/Jack used their experience of the last 10 years to create pricing that would be fair to both Club finances and attendees. Nothing more other than to say there is no use in asking for justification. They did their best. You can always debate the merits of any program or pricing plan. The ultimate indication on what they done is to see how the registrations go. I would bet there will be modifications in the program or pricing after the first or second event.