October AX Course Map

[Carl Vanders]

Looks like a fun course with some nice elements. I just got back from the Solo National Autox in Lincoln,Neb and attached is the link to the East course track map. If you look at the one slalom in section 2-3 its a slight variation on our first slalom type element. Using the down cones in this way may be a bit easier to see. (Just a suggestion and Either way works for me) My other observation on the course design would be at the tip of the hat area- and the potential of having to shift down to first, this is alway a bit hard on the cars. I also think the pumkin is not as round as it appears and should hopefully drive more like a 180 turn around. I guess you could always flatten the bottom of it a bit, giving it a little base. I will try to make it to set up too.

http://carlv.zenfolio.com/p433022642/hf113a58#hf113a58

[Mmagus]

Thanks everyone for the comments and suggestions. I have been away for the weekend and not able to read up on your thoughts. I know its not perfect, and try not to take things "personally", though as the designer, its a little hard at times Please know that my answers here are not in defense but rather in an effort to clear up points and concerns.

Using the down cones in this way may be a bit easier to see. (Just a suggestion and Either way works for me) My other observation on the course design would be at the tip of the hat area- and the potential of having to shift down to first, this is alway a bit hard on the cars.

The Gate section will have "downed" pointer cones to help guide drivers in the direction of the next gate.
Other than start, there should be no car that has to shift to first. The tip of the hat will be adjusted to make that a reality.

I'll have to agree with Jad on this. Cute picture , not necessarily good layout. It's seems very short , again we are not using the top far right area. the gates are used a lot at OCR tracks and you can lose the track pretty easily. Also you guys Have something against 3 cone slaloms?

Oh mike? With that layout...you're gonna get worked!

The far upper right section of the lot is simply a mess. Most of the time this year when we lay the track through there its really not a question of following any real design, its rather just finding some sort of path that not: blow apart, about to, full of nails driven into the asphalt, in need of a weed whacker to get the first run group through. To alleviate this and give a change to what is usually done, I simply decided to not go there this time.
In the gated area both pointer cones and chalk lines will be used to try an guide drivers. As I said earlier, this style of layout seems to be fairly normal at Nationals and folks not used to seeing them can be at a disadvantage. Even our stalwart Paul Young Sr. repeatedly missed a gate at Nationals this year. I hope to help our folks at least be familiar with it before the next parade.

I don't have anything against a 3 cone slalom, but view that as really more of a short rhythm section rather than a true slalom. Jerry has been suggesting an off camber slalom for a while now so I wanted to really have it e a long one. Since I know you like them, I will try to include one in the November "Turkey Trot", Heck since they are so short, maybe we will have two!

Speaking of laying down the course...I'm begging you guys, PLEASE make it wider than last time!!!! I felt like someone was playing a joke on us and tied in a extra knot on the roping rope
Oh, and that pumpkin turn...it has my name all over it! You guys know how I like to slide through turns like that Thanks for all the effort Mark and Jerry!

I will try to keep my cohorts on the WIDE path during layout...in some areas it will be wider than you might expect.


The Great Pumpkin. yes. its a gimmick BUT I will do my very best to make it, safe, challenging, interesting and fun. If it isn't it will be changed.

Again NOT in defense, just as information, I have encouraged everyone to submit tracks to be run, to date I have received exactly zero, zip, none, nada, zilch, 1-1. As far as I know, I will still be in an AX chair spot next year, so please know that I would love to have folks join in on the design fun.

Thanks for the enjoyment, its really great to be back from my couple of months of hiatus. (No...I am not being sarcastic ..I really mean it. )

Mark
AX Whippingboy

[Dan Chambers]

That track looks very ..... interesting.

Maybe you should set up an oscillating sprinkler system on the pumpkin section. It's very similar to the PDS excersizes we used to do in the morning. Just add water. That would defnitely reduce tire wear, and make for some interesting driving-skill entertainment. Adam G.; you'd rock with added water.

[JERRY B]

Saturday is the Day when Witches and 911's/ 944's will play
Dont get left in the Dark prereg today

http://www.motorsportreg.com/index.cfm/ ... 0FD7D25C23

Tomorrow is the last day to prereg.

[martinreinhardt]

That track looks very ..... interesting.

Maybe you should set up an oscillating sprinkler system on the pumpkin section. It's very similar to the PDS excersizes we used to do in the morning. Just add water. That would defnitely reduce tire wear, and make for some interesting driving-skill entertainment. Adam G.; you'd rock with added water.

Looking at the October track map, I'd like to suggest to change "the great pumpkin" head to at 180 deg turn instead of 300 deg turn The track design may look fun, but that doesn't necessary make it fun or safe to drive.

A few (many) years ago we had a full 360 deg turn on the east lot, which seemed to be a fun idea/change. But it actually created quite a stir among drivers back then and it was concluded to be a differential and wheel bearing killer and safety issue. After the first practice runs It was then replaced with a 180 turn. I have to agree with this. Yes there should be a variety of degree turns, but none higher than 180 deg in a Autocross course.

[ScandinavianFlick]

I've participated in two previous events (with other organizations) which included 360* turns as part of the course design. On neither occasion did any sort of safety hazard occur. Some spinning in the pumpkin is doubtless going to occur; it is the responsibility of the corner workers to be aware and communicate alerts and reentry instructions with the drivers, just as in every other event. Martin, if you're concerned, you should come to the track-setting party; Jerry and Mark are very safety-conscious, and inevitably make some changes on the fly Friday afternoon. If the Pumpkin turns out to be hazard in reality, it will undoubtedly be addressed before 1st practice.

Personally i'm looking forward to it- a 270* right with 90* lefts on entrance and exit should be a real test of line-finding skills and car control

[Mmagus]

Martin when we set the track on friday we will carefully test the pumpkin . If we need to we will turn it into a giant gourd turn of 180 degrees...


...perhaps followed by another 180, after all we have to get pointod towards the finish line !

Mark

[martinreinhardt]

I found a pretty good document on designing autocross courses worth reading. It's SCCA, but the basics are the same other than in general they don't design tracks to go over 60mph like we do.

See link: http://www.houscca.com/solo/courses/Course_Design_4-1-2.pdf

Do we have a PCASDR autocross track design guide? I know the club has sent autocross chairs to track design courses in the past. It probably would be good to have to keep the knowledge documented for future autocross chairs.

[Mmagus]

Martin,

Thanks for the link. I did have it on hand already, but it has been a few months since I peeked at it and its a good reminder. Several of the tools will be handy for this months course. Such as good pointer cone technique for gates, and setting cones for the sweeper (however many degrees it ends up being).

I look forward to seeing you this week. Come on out to the track setting party on Friday if you can.

Mark

[martinreinhardt]

I'd love to come to your track party, but weekdays won't work for me. I already have my share of PCA volunteering tasks aligned with helping pre-registration, timing setup and working, posting results etc.